Hibernial dress, caledonial custom: A brief history of irish kilts & tartans

[artificer]

As well you should -- just don't claim an ancient pedigree for it.

Thank you both for the comments!

T.

Ha! well played, sir.
Her family colour is actually Vermilion red (which I'm not too keen to have a kilt in) the new tartan is quite nice though. According to her father (who has since passed on) the family has ties to the McCoy's of Kentucky (which is where he was from). I'm assuming that is actually MacKay as far as tartans go. The blue isn't bad. I can't be too picky though, my family colour is Loden green suede .

[BoldHighlander]

Ha! well played, sir.
Her family colour is actually Vermilion red (which I'm not too keen to have a kilt in) the new tartan is quite nice though. According to her father (who has since passed on) the family has ties to the McCoy's of Kentucky (which is where he was from). I'm assuming that is actually MacKay as far as tartans go. The blue isn't bad. I can't be too picky though, my family colour is Loden green suede .

Yep
McCoy is claimed as a Mackay sept.

[toadinakilt]

This chap seems to think differently. But I don't trust him, because the colors on his website are atrocious.

[macwilkin]

This chap seems to think differently. But I don't trust him, because the colors on his website are atrocious.

More importantly, don't trust the article because the author does not document his sources. But that article has been available for quite sometime now, and was not a response to our article, as you imply.

T.

[toadinakilt]

Didn't mean to imply anything. And yes, I am well aware of the importance of documentation. But you must agree, the colors are horrendous.

A little background: After reading this thread I did a search for saffron kilts and came up with this article... his brazen statements, such as "The evidence is now conclusive that every Irish clan family had its own distinctive kilt colour", struck me as pretty funny.

The internet is a wonderful place, ain't it?

[macwilkin]

Didn't mean to imply anything. And yes, I am well aware of the importance of documentation. But you must agree, the colors are horrendous.

A little background: After reading this thread I did a search for saffron kilts and came up with this article... his brazen statements, such as "The evidence is now conclusive that every Irish clan family had its own distinctive kilt colour", struck me as pretty funny.

The internet is a wonderful place, ain't it?

No arguements on the web site; the article itself was written by a chap who self-styled himself "the O'Dinan". There is much debate regarding his conclusions, as you rightly point out.

T.

[O'Callaghan]

No arguements on the web site; the article itself was written by a chap who self-styled himself "the O'Dinan". There is much debate regarding his conclusions, as you rightly point out.

T.

I think the O'Dinan's article was rubbish, sadly. It was written some time ago, and the author actually died a while back, we are told.

Outside of that one article itself, the only examples of Irish solid coloured kilts I ever see referred to are either saffron, green or (very rarely) sky blue, none of which are ever said to represent a clan. For those who don't know, saffron represents the practice of dyeing the ancient Irish leine with that substance, although being linen they were actually an entirely different shade, whereas the wearing of the green in general represents the 18th century rebellions of the United Irishmen, or the green cockades that were distributed to them by their French allies and the shamrocks that were worn by those who didn't receive a cockade, and sky blue is said to represent St. Patrick, although I am unaware of the least support or reason for the latter, or any historical reference to anyone ever wearing a sky blue kilt to honour St. Patrick.

Both green and saffron kilts were certainly worn as symbols of Irish nationalism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, although ironically pipers in Irish units of the British Army also wore saffron kilts from the 19th century onwards, and the same are currently also worn by pipers in both the Irish Army and the Irish Air Corps.

The style, using the definite article in front of the surname, does imply that the author was chief of the O'Dinan clan. I have never heard of such a family name, and this was not one of the clan chiefs recognised by the Irish government (unlike Don Juan O'Callaghan of Barcelona, for example), but it is difficult to conclusively rule it out, since the majority of Irish clan chiefs were never recognised. This in turn should not be surprising, given that Irish clans generally ceased to function as clans per se during the 17th century, whereas Ireland only became independent in 1920.

[macwilkin]

I think the O'Dinan's article was rubbish, sadly. It was written some time ago, and the author actually died a while back, we are told.

Outside of that one article itself, the only examples of Irish solid coloured kilts I ever see referred to are either saffron, green or (very rarely) sky blue, none of which are ever said to represent a clan. For those who don't know, saffron represents the practice of dyeing the ancient Irish leine with that substance, although being linen they were actually an entirely different shade, whereas the wearing of the green in general represents the 18th century rebellions of the United Irishmen, or the green cockades that were distributed to them by their French allies and the shamrocks that were worn by those who didn't receive a cockade, and sky blue is said to represent St. Patrick, although I am unaware of the least support or reason for the latter, or any historical reference to anyone ever wearing a sky blue kilt to honour St. Patrick.

Both green and saffron kilts were certainly worn as symbols of Irish nationalism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, although ironically pipers in Irish units of the British Army also wore saffron kilts from the 19th century onwards, and the same are currently also worn by pipers in both the Irish Army and the Irish Air Corps.

The style, using the definite article in front of the surname, does imply that the author was chief of the O'Dinan clan. I have never heard of such a family name, and this was not one of the clan chiefs recognised by the Irish government (unlike Don Juan O'Callaghan of Barcelona, for example), but it is difficult to conclusively rule it out, since the majority of Irish clan chiefs were never recognised. This in turn should not be surprising, given that Irish clans generally ceased to function as clans per se during the 17th century, whereas Ireland only became independent in 1920.

Talk about "preaching to the choir"!

T.