Why a kilt costs what it does...a re-re-re-hash

[bricelythgoe]

To me the mantra of cheaper and better cannot be completely applied to items that are rare, unique, and/or one of a kind.

Rob

Italics added by me. I completely agree!

[Danwell]

I think that a kilt is worth what the buyer is willing to pay. I LOVE my PV kilts and think they are just as good and comparable to Rocky or Steve's. I have the luxury of not having a store front, so my pricing does not have the factors that they do.

I don't make 100% hand stitched kilts, but what I do make (half/half hand/machine) are complete contenders and priced fairly. I am lucky in that my store is the most unique on the market as far as offering new, and innovative ideas for an assortment of products. Because I make 2 of the lines (Sporrans and kilts), and have direct contact and relationships with the vendors who make my other stuff, I am able to make a REALLY nice spread of pricing, while at the same time, a living.

I'm not in this to be the next USA kilts or Burnett & Struth. I am EXTREMELY proud of what I've done with my own sector and where I stand today, and I'm also glad to be part of these exciting times where we see companies like USAKilts, Freedom kilts, B&S really taking the lead for the NA market and establishing lifelong relationships with customers here where the market is booming (My waiting list for N.A. and Canadian customers is almost at 4 months for everything across the board). I also love being the "Apple Computer" in a PC world....."Think Different"....

So spend what you want on your favorite maker! I love it that Brice loves my stuff. Everyone who has bought one of my PVs falls in-love with them, so I feel like I'm doing my part. I love it that Ron buys all his PVs from Rocky, which shows his passion for kilt wearing and who he buys it from. I love it that I have bought a casual for myself from B&S and can't wait to wear it. I love it that Matt and Lady Chrystel have reintroduced something wonderful to us, and are both setting tradition and customer love through their work. I love it that every single alt-kilt that I see in the Bay area is a freedom kilt. Its all about wearing a kilt and being free....right? I love this life more than I EVER loved it. I want you all to love being kilted and not get weighted down by these kind of post questions.

As someone new to all this kilting stuff (and someone who doesn't even own a kilt yet!) this is the kind of attitude that makes me think that it doesn't matter what it costs as long as you love what you're wearing. Every single one of you got into kilting knowing entirely that it wasn't a cheap hobby, past-time, lifestyle or way of dress. If the price is so objectionable, then don't buy. If the goods are genuinely over priced and the profit margin really is huge, then the prices will fall when demand plumets.

The thing it, we all know that $650 for a hand made 16oz Freedom kilt is a bargain because you are receiving an heirloom quality garment that is made with impeccable quality by a talented kilt maker, and is made with love.
Equally, a half machine/half hand sewn 8 yard (!!!) PV from Josh at under $200 is incredible value.........but they're marketed to different people, with different needs, and are made in different ways by people with different lives in different areas to different specs.

I don't think anyone here begrudges the Barb T.'s and the Matt Newsome's of the world charging what they do for their labour, because we're all greatful for the opportunity they provide to buy a piece of their art. I understand why Brice asked what he did: if they money is so bad, why are there so many doing it? I don't know either, and you have to wonder if really is that bad...........if it is, then I'm greatful for these people and the time they sacrifice to allow us to enjoy kilting.

[artificer]

The thing it, we all know that $650 for a hand made 16oz Freedom kilt is a bargain because you are receiving an heirloom quality garment that is made with impeccable quality by a talented kilt maker, and is made with love.
Equally, a half machine/half hand sewn 8 yard (!!!) PV from Josh at under $200 is incredible value.........but they're marketed to different people, with different needs, and are made in different ways by people with different lives in different areas to different specs.

Well said! Not everyone would wear a $1-3000 suit every day, even if everyone could afford it. For me, right now, a hand made wool kilt is not only a luxury I can ill afford, but with my 4yr old around, I'd be in a constant state of terror that I'd get SOMETHING on it- the same reason I don't wear a nice suit when out with my son.

I don't think anyone here begrudges the Barb T.'s and the Matt Newsome's of the world charging what they do for their labour, because we're all greatful for the opportunity they provide to buy a piece of their art. I understand why Brice asked what he did: if they money is so bad, why are there so many doing it? I don't know either, and you have to wonder if really is that bad...........if it is, then I'm greatful for these people and the time they sacrifice to allow us to enjoy kilting.

I'm not in a position to speak for any of our 'pro' kilt makers, but I do know something about working for yourself making things.

Generally it IS a labour of love. Sure, you'll make some money, but if you compare the hours that go into hand labour for a given dollar amount (after subtracting material costs) vs the hours/pay at a decent mid-level job... it usually boils down to "This person is doing [X] because they LOVE it, NOT because they plan on getting rich".

For example: assume an 8yr kilt retails for $600 and takes 12hrs to make by hand. 16oz fabric retails for $60-80 a yard, so assume the wholesale is $30-40 (and I don't know what mark up is on material like this, but am basing it on other goods).

8yds = $240-320
600-240 = 360
360/12 = $30/hr.

this includes no other material/ wear and tear on tools/ etc. I also took high numbers for sale price of kilt and low for cost of fabric.

if you break it down the other way with a kilt taking more like 20hrs and the fabric cost high you get
8ed = 320
600-320= 280
280/20= $14/hr.

Nobody's retiring to their private island on $14/hr.

When I was in interior design, I used to get (and this was 12yrs ago) $60-80/hr for consultation, meetings, drafting, and original design. The second I stepped into the shop to make something that wasn't available I was working for far less than half that. With the advent of cheap overseas labour and more of our job force moving away from 'hand work', people have no idea of the hours (and therefore, to the craftsperson, $$$) that go into making custom products.

When I've got the free cash (and feel that my son won't get hummus all over it) I'll be pleased as punch to fork over my cash to one of our pros for a custom 8yd 16oz kilt. And I'll feel like I'M the one who got the better end of the bargain.

[Riverkilt]

Here's a quote from Kathy Lare's website www.kathyskilts.com that might help with understanding kilt pricing.

" It's not an easy profession requiring endless patience. Each kilt requires about 3,000 hand stitches and around 16 hours of work. It's all down to mathematics as you have to calculate the measurements to fit the tartan for each individual!"

Her pricing depends upon the weight of the fabric. From $425 for an 11 ounce wool kilt to $521 for 16 ounce Strome. As mentioned, not a bad price for an heirloom.

Which brings up another thing I am paying my kiltmakers for: ENDLESS PATIENCE and VERY CONFUSING MATHMATICS (for me) to make my kilt fit...over and above their craftsmanship.

[toadinakilt]

I don't think anyone here begrudges the Barb T.'s and the Matt Newsome's of the world charging what they do for their labour, because we're all greatful for the opportunity they provide to buy a piece of their art. I understand why Brice asked what he did: if they money is so bad, why are there so many doing it? I don't know either, and you have to wonder if really is that bad...........if it is, then I'm greatful for these people and the time they sacrifice to allow us to enjoy kilting.

Agree with the first part, take umbrage at the second. I'm pretty positive the money sucks.

Why do artists of any ilk do what they do? Just because a kilt is a garment, doesn't mean it's not in the same category as a fine portrait, beautiful vase, or heck, a 3-movement work for wind quintet. Artists almost never make enough to live on. I know a few in the Asheville area who do, but they only become "successful" when they mass-produce their art, print it onto mugs, whatever.

The money is never great in the fine arts. Artists enjoy what they do. And what kilt makers charge is frankly quite unfair... to them.

My two cents, again.

[techdragon]

I was just making this point: If there is little to be made in kilt making, then how do people make a living doing it? There has to be money made somewhere, unless it is just a part-time thing. If it is not made in the kilt, than it is made elsewhere.

It is tricky but do-able. I have been making kilts by hand for 4 years now and it supports me and my two kids as I work full day, six days a week at it. The big shows I do each year are a great bonus. It is little made on each kilt but the volume - I can do about 200 kilts a year a a good solid pace - makes it work.

-Jeanie

[Barb T]

And I know that many of you on this forum know this, but I make kilts because I love to make kilts. I truly enjoy getting to know (typically electronically) the people I make kilts for, and I get a great deal of pleasure from how much they enjoy my work. I am a professional kiltmaker, but I frankly don't try to make a living at it.

My main money-earning profession is as a professor of geology. I love that too. I love to teach, and I love the opportunities that I have to do research in Iceland and Egypt, and it keeps my synapses snapping. Quite honestly, I know myself well enough to know that I would go quietly batty if I made kilts 100% of the time.

But - even though I do not try to make a living as a kiltmaker, I firmly believe that it is unfair both to me and to other kiltmakers to undercut in terms of cost, just because I am not trying to make a living as a kiltmaker. So, my labor costs are on par with what other good kiltmakers charge. Do I make a lot of $$ making kilts? No. Does it make a difference in my life? Yes. I now have a young graduate student in Egypt. The money that I earn making kilts has made it possible for me to tell her that I will be able to come to Egypt and do field work with her, regardless of whether the National Science Foundation decides to fund my recent grant proposal.

Some of us make a living by kiltmaking; some of us are kiltmakers but don't make a living at it. We are equally professional.

[slohairt]

Barb raises a very good point: It is important to charge the 'going rate' even if you only make kilts part-time, or just as a hobby. Many individuals who work in a craft find it irritating when someone comes along and just works for 'cost' because they regard it as simply a fun past-time.

It's also worth noting that kilt-making is, for some, a family tradition and a 'culturally significant' activity. (For me it is both.) Not too many people can say that about their job, and you can't really put a price on that either.

[triolamj]

I pay attention to the COST, but it's the LACK OF CRAFTSMANSHIP that irks me. I've moaned about it in other forums so I'll cut this short: I would rather spend under a $100 for a casual kilt in a generic regimental tartan than purchase another casual kilt sewn by a Scottish-based company like Lochcarron. Given the difference in price, the superior quality of the dye colors, the number of pleats, the needlework, and especially the fit, I'm still fuming years afterward that a small firm in Sialkot, Pakistan could so outshine a Scottish company in crafting a quintessentially Scottish item. I do believe in the old Biblical saying that the workman is worth his hire, but hope that when I send money for a kilt or accessories to my Pakistani kiltmaker that what seems to a small amount to me is more than enough to cover his costs and time.

[Kornkob]

Anyone want to define 'SHO' for me? Been mentioned several times and I can't figure out what it refers to.