Torn Between Two Tartans

[L. Ramsay]

Well, I need to learn to read the thread before excitedly pointing out a resemblance everyone already noticed. *rolls eyes*

Fortunately you can edit these to make a good comparison.

Here's what they had on the Tartans Authority

Swan:
Pre 2002
Color Sequence: KWKBKB
Thread Count: KK12 WW8 KK72 SBB72 KK8 SBB12

Ramsay Blue:
Pre 1950
Color Sequence: BKBKNK
Thread Count: BL6 K2 BL60 K56 LN4 K8

[L. Ramsay]

I thought the same thing when I came across the Ramsay tartan some time back, but, comparing the thread counts, the Swan tartan is quite a bit larger than the Ramsay. I am fairly new at this, though - would they still be considered the same tartan if they have the same colours/pattern but a different thread count?

I'd like to be able to tell any Ramsays that the tartan I am wearing is different in some way to theirs (unless, of course, it isn't).

And Mike, I like it as well which is why I'm fairly certain that's the one I'll be starting with and we'll see if kilts really are like Lays potato chips...

I guess that means me. (Heh heh)

At first I thought there was a slight difference, but after some more looking it appears you use the same.

I can't tell if you're a sept of Ramsay or not, something for me to look into. It certainly would make sense if you were.

EDIT: Did some digging, Swan appears to be a Sept of Gunn (which is in a totally different area than Ramsay). Maybe there is some sort of difference between tartans after all. Its definitely over my head though.

[Mike_Oettle]

Well, if Swan is a sept of Gunn, that points to a Norwegian Viking origin.
That could be an interesting line of investigation.
Regards,
Mike

[Cygnus]

Well, if Swan is a sept of Gunn, that points to a Norwegian Viking origin.
That could be an interesting line of investigation.
Regards,
Mike

Swans are a listed "sept" of clan Gunn, but they're also listed with clan MacQueen. As far back as I can go, my ancestors seem to be pretty exclusively located in Midlothian and Perthshire (the Gunn Swans tend to be in the extreme North of Scotland).

Additionally, the historian Robert M. Gunn has written an article about the Gunn Septs and he points out some discrepancies in the thinking that made the Swans a sept of Clan Gunn.

Given their location, it seems that my ancestors may have been loyal to Clan MacQueen, but, as I said before, I really have no way of knowing where the family was from originally since the earliest birthplace I know of was for my great-great-great-great grandfather who was born in Co. Cork, Ireland in 1799 while his father was there with the military (probably making shoes for the soldiers, since journals state that cobbling was and had pretty much always been the family trade and I doubt most soldiers would be able to take their families along). I don't know where his father was born, all I know is that he purchased a shop in Edinburgh after his time in Ireland. So, prior to the conflict in Ireland in 1798, I have no idea where in Scotland the family lived.

Because of this, I'd like to avoid going with either of the clan tartans associated with my family name in the hopes that more information will be found that eliminates any doubt about the family's origins.

[L. Ramsay]

Well, thats a very interesting choice of action. I hope you will find more information. In the meantime there's always universal tartans.

[Cygnus]

Well, thats a very interesting choice of action. I hope you will find more information. In the meantime there's always universal tartans.

Yeah, call me picky.

I just know that shortly after I purchase a Tank in a clan tartan, I'll finally find the "missing link" that connects my family to the other clan!

I realize that it all doesn't matter much and that I can wear any tartan I choose; I guess I just have a romantic streak that makes me want a firm connection to the tartan I'm wearing!

[Mike_Oettle]

Cygnus wrote: “I guess I just have a romantic streak that makes me want a firm connection to the tartan I'm wearing!”

That’s my feeling on the matter, too.
I am planning to purchase a denim kilt next year, and after that to get at least one tartan kilt. I may go for the XMTS tartan, but a custom weave of the tartan I designed for myself may be the route to take instead.
Of course it does depend on my financial state!
Regards,
Mike

[L. Ramsay]

*** on that Romantic streak. I feel that my kilt symbolizes my heritage and my ancestry, its why I can't really imagine getting anything but my tartan.

[OC Richard]

In The Setts of the Scottish Tartans DC Stewart says

"Ramsay was one of the names adopted by members of Clan MacGregor when their own was proscribed under successive enactments directed against the Clan. These repressive laws were almost continuously in force from 1563 to 1775. The choice of the early MacGregor tartan as the basis of the Ramsay may be explined by the adoption of the latter name by so many MacGregors. The design (of the Ramsay tartan) has the authority of the Vestiarium Scoticum."

This is a personal bais, but I myself prefer to steer clear of Vestiarium Scoticum inventions.

Modern "trade" tartans designed by Lochcarron etc are far more "authentic", in my opinion, in that they are designed by weavers to be woven on the loom, by people with great experience in tartan design. Tartans invented by the authors of the Vestiarium Scoticum show a lack of knowledge (or at least a lack of appreciation) of the aesthetics and principles of tartan design, and in fact were designed as graphics, not cloth.

[L. Ramsay]

I find MacGregor to lack the strength of resemblance which everyone claims.

Now I'm not entirely sure what your point is Richard, could you elaborate?