The 1822 Jacket

[creagdhubh]

You are more than welcome mate. I am pleased to see that Matt, Scott and Sandy responded to your query, as I trust their experienced judgment and advice immensely. I also tend to agree with Matt in terms of the Sheriffmuir. I for one do not purchase any piece of Highland attire that I know will not fit well. The fit, cut, and measurements are all extremely vital to the final appearance, as I am sure you are well aware, and that is why I tend to have my doublets made bespoke to my frame. I too have a relatively small waist and broad shoulders, so I understand where you are coming from.

I absolutely love the way my Regulation doublet looks when I wear it. I also own a simple, understated, and very elegant Coatee from Kinloch-Anderson as well. The Coatee does not have braided epualettes, has only three buttons on the front, does have tails with buttons in rear, has Braemar cuffs, and is made of 15 ounce, black barathea wool. It is probably too simple and understated for what you are looking for, and is somewhat actually that way for me at this point in my life (though it has its uses for certain events and I adore the cut and simplicity), that is why I am in the process of having a tartan doublet made (see my thread in the traditional Highland dress topic on XMTS) at the moment!

I do concur with what Sandy, Scott, and MacLowlife mentioned regarding the 1822 style doublet. I would indeed tone it down a wee bit by not having the gold braiding-that looks too much like a costume doublet, or more along the lines of a uniform. I do not own a doublet or coatee in velvet, though I have often dreamed of getting one, it never occurred to me that the fabric would leave deep creases like Scott said, hmmm, probably wont consider a velvet doublet anymore then since I am so OCD (thanks to the Marine Corps!) when it comes to my Highland attire-no wrinkles!!!

Good luck with your new venture my friend and please keep all of us posted!

Cheers,

[longhuntr74]

Again, thanks to all for your inputs. Just waiting response from Jock, Chas and Robert and it will officially be a project. I say that in jest...thanks for inputs...and I'll definitely post pics if and when I get started.

[longhuntr74]

Anybody else have thoughts on velvet? I'm not disregarding previous advice...just seeking others opinions. There are different types of velvet, so it may be an over-simplification to say that "it wrinkles easily."

Also...Kyle...what is this coatee that you speak of? Post a pic if you would.

[MacLowlife]

Velvet does wrinkle, but it also steams out pretty easily. You don't want to iron it. I can't really say whether cotton velvet or wool doeskin is hotter to wear. Hotter, because the problem nowadays is going to be wearing your doublet indoors to a crowded party. And when you go with wool tropical or barathea, you end up with innerfacing and lining that almost cancels the advantages of the lighter weight fabric. I suspect cotton is going to be cooler than silk or synthetic.

There are a number of nice lightweight fabrics that look more or less like velvet- check out poly-suedes, alcantara, moleskin, corduroy, etc. I'd stay away from cotton flannel just because of durability issues. You might find an upholstery fabric that looks and acts like velvet, but has a stiff enough backing to eliminate some of the lining. It would be a good idea to take your sewing consultant to the fabric store.

If you are going to do this yourself, I expect the big question is whether to make a true constructed garment with inner facings and linings, or make what amounts to a pajama shirt (or a very short bathrobe), which is a lot easier, but limited. The big deal about a "canvassed" garment is that it is stiff enough to stand in place on your chest without being buttoned up. The pajama type of garment looks OK only when buttoned, which knocks out this design. Otherwise, it flops open. Think of the difference between a sportcoat and a CPO shirt, or a cardigan.

Obviously, when you go to a tailor, you want to get a tailored garment- and you want it to be made of materials worthy of the time and craftsmanship.

Sorry to derail the thread a little, but it may be of use / interest to you as you make your decisions.

Back to your other original question, even if you don't want to go with tone on tone braid, you might consider something low-contrast, like black on green or grey on blue or red, etc.

The price from M-F is pretty good, considering the price of the pound these days. If they are making them to measure, they might agree to substitute a black or self-color braid. It is worth asking.

[JSFMACLJR]

Anybody else have thoughts on velvet? I'm not disregarding previous advice...just seeking others opinions. There are different types of velvet, so it may be an over-simplification to say that "it wrinkles easily."
.

I don't have a problem with my velvet doublets wrinkling. Perhaps there is a big difference between silk velvet--which mine are--and cotton velvet. I always brush my jackets after I wear them, and I stuff the sleeves with tissue paper before I hang them up. Sometimes I let them steam a bit in the shower before I wear them, but I really don't have a problem with them at all.

I much prefer the hand of silk velvet over cotton. Cotton feels somewhat coarse and the colours aren't as rich as silk. Like anything, I guess, you get what you paid for.

[artificer]

I could see that coatee in a deep claret tone (self coloured trim) with a deep bronze or even antiqued bronze/brass hardware.

Personally, I LOVE the idea of the coatee, and second JSFMACLJR's suggestion of looking into silk velvet over the cotton. If you're going to go, go all out. I'd say that a coatee like this should really SING.

[longhuntr74]

MacLL...great thoughts...and it wasn't derailing at all. It is exactly the type of feedback that I'm looking for with my inquiry.

I've never made a fully constructed/tailored garment, but the last weskit I made (1760s vintage) was darned close with interlining, real metal trim, hand sewn button holes, and such. I understand the principles and think I'm up to the task. Sure it may take me some trial and error and some "oh crap" moments, but that is part of the challenge. I like the appeal of having a truly unique garment that I can say "I made it" when asked.

I also have a very good friend that is an avid costumer and re-enactor to consult if needed. In fact, she said she has some swatches of silk velvets that I can check out. She wasn't positive, but she believes them to be a silk and cotton combo...or possibly even 100% silk...but I would think more likely the first based on the costs that I've seen for 100% silk velvet ($300+ per yard). In any case she's almost certain that it's 100% natural materials and no synthetics.

Regarding color...I expect to stick with dark blue, dark green, or deep purple with self colored, grey, or black trim. I'll just have to see what's available and what I like.

MacLL and Sandy...good inputs on the care of velvet! I'll consider wool...but I'm leaning towards velvet still.

[BoldHighlander]

MacLL...great thoughts...and it wasn't derailing at all. It is exactly the type of feedback that I'm looking for with my inquiry.

I've never made a fully constructed/tailored garment, but the last weskit I made (1760s vintage) was darned close with interlining, real metal trim, hand sewn button holes, and such. I understand the principles and think I'm up to the task. Sure it may take me some trial and error and some "oh crap" moments, but that is part of the challenge. I like the appeal of having a truly unique garment that I can say "I made it" when asked.

If you intend to make it yourself, I would advise first mocking it up in muslin, it saves on those "oh crap" moments (that could get quite expensive), or so I've been told by those who have 'been there, done that'.

[longhuntr74]

If you intend to make it yourself, I would advise first mocking it up in muslin, it saves on those "oh crap" moments (that could get quite expensive), or so I've been told by those who have 'been there, done that'.

Well of course...that's a given. pattern and fitting will not be an issue. There will be no expensive material cut until the pattern has been totally worked out.

The challenge, in my mind, will be the shaping of the breast padding/interlining and assembling things in the right order. I was reading some feedback from a lady that posted about her experiences in making a Victorian era tailcoat. One of her interesting observations was that in dressmaking, you are building the garment around a body/form. In making men's coats, you are building outward...meaning that the lining and interlining are the base of the garment and the outer fabric is simply a covering of that foundation. Sounds vaguely like...hmmm...what was it? Oh, I know....KILT CONSTRUCTION!!!!

[OC Richard]

It strikes my eye as a bit odd that an Archer Green doublet with white piping is being linked to the 1822 Royal visit.

In the famous painting of King George's 1822 visit, every visible figure in Highland Dress is wearing a tartan jacket.

They all look more or less like this:



And there still exists a tartan coatee made for the King's nephew for that event.

That MacKenzie-Frain Archer Green doublet with white piping strikes my eye as a civilian adaptation of the post-1840's regimental piper's doublet.

Here is the Archer Green doublet first introduced for the pipers of the 79th Foot/Cameron Highlanders in the 1840's, and still worn by some military and civilian pipe bands (though the Scottish regiments in Scotland haven't worn this style since 1953)