Questioning thoughts

[azwildcat96]

I took some wise advice when I purchased my first and only kilt..."Buy the best kilt that you can afford." The reason being that "You can easily dress down an expensive 8-yard wool tank, but you will never pull off dressing up a cheap synthetic 4-yard bargin kilt."

That's not to say that there is no place for the less expensive kilts. I would not want to wear a $600+ garment while performing certain activities, especially if prone to dirt, sweat, etc. A Hash House Harrier event comes to mind.

The accessories can come later, a little at a time, and as funds are available. It will also make it easy for your family to shop for you on Birthdays, Christmas, Father's Day, etc. They can just add a piece or two to your collection.

If the need arises for a formal occasion, rent a jacket, vest and sporran or whatever else for the night.

[SmokinScotsman]

I took some wise advice when I purchased my first and only kilt..."Buy the best kilt that you can afford." The reason being that "You can easily dress down an expensive 8-yard wool tank, but you will never pull off dressing up a cheap synthetic 4-yard bargin kilt."

That's not to say that there is no place for the less expensive kilts. I would not want to wear a $600+ garment while performing certain activities, especially if prone to dirt, sweat, etc. A Hash House Harrier event comes to mind.

The accessories can come later, a little at a time, and as funds are available. It will also make it easy for your family to shop for you on Birthdays, Christmas, Father's Day, etc. They can just add a piece or two to your collection.

If the need arises for a formal occasion, rent a jacket, vest and sporran or whatever else for the night.

I guess this is exactly my point. Why when new to the kilt people show up here are they not given more advice like this? Or why not steer them toward "American"/utility/non dressy kilts? If given this advice they could buy one article of clothing and nothing else.
I know personally in the 7 yrs I have only worn a kilt semi/formal 3 times. Most of us are not going to be attending balls and the like. I wear tshirts and boots with my kilts 99.9% of the time. Why does it feel like forced "traditionalism" and formality? If we really want to see the kilt worn as "normal" clothing we have to quite telling people that you have to wear, for example, a jacket(PC or argyle only)..vest..hose(better be diced, not white)..black knife(made of ebony or stag horn)..ghillie brogues..special hat(tam or any other type that no one has seen in fashion for a century). That is the whole reason UK has become known, they aren't pretentious.

[artificer]

I guess this is exactly my point. Why when new to the kilt people show up here are they not given more advice like this? Or why not steer them toward "American"/utility/non dressy kilts? If given this advice they could buy one article of clothing and nothing else.
I know personally in the 7 yrs I have only worn a kilt semi/formal 3 times. Most of us are not going to be attending balls and the like. I wear tshirts and boots with my kilts 99.9% of the time. Why does it feel like forced "traditionalism" and formality? If we really want to see the kilt worn as "normal" clothing we have to quite telling people that you have to wear, for example, a jacket(PC or argyle only)..vest..hose(better be diced, not white)..black knife(made of ebony or stag horn)..ghillie brogues..special hat(tam or any other type that no one has seen in fashion for a century). That is the whole reason UK has become known, they aren't pretentious.

Sorry, SmokinScotsman, but your original post didn't mention enforced traditionalism or being overly precious or formal at all... which is why nobody has addressed it.

Again, why WOULD you advise someone who ISN'T sure that they're going to like wearing a kilt to buy $$$$$$$$$. You wouldn't have a first time driver buy a Bentley.

Nobody here is trying to steer people away from 'good' kilts. PV is usually recommended for starters as they are more affordable, and can look VERY nice.

As for recommending a modern MUG over a traditional tartan kilt, my guess is that it's partly because you can get a VERY well made PV tartan kilt for about the same cost as a Utilikilt. Again, which is more useful? An 8yd PV that can be dressed up, or a MUG, which is basically blue jeans.

To the point of forced traditionalism... sure some traditional kilt wearers here tend to steer people that way. However, there are plenty who wear polo shirts, scrunched hose and boots (or sandals), and no bonnet AT ALL
As you said, a kilt can be dressed up or down.

I also think you'll RARELY find folks here on this board TELLING others that they NEED to wear a jacket (especially a PC), or that a waistcoat, or ghille brogues need to be worn. Please note that there IS a forum for TRADITIONAL HIGHLAND WEAR where this does occur, as people are asking for this sort of advise (but it still rarely involves the PC or Ghillies).

I don't know how long you 'lurked around' before becoming a member, but I can see you've only got 10 posts (two of which are in this topic). You might just want to explore the forum a while longer before condemning
everyone with the label "cheap kilt advising, PC and ghillie brogue wearing-fancy-pants".

I think the longer you're here, the less you'll probably find that label to be true

[macwilkin]

I guess this is exactly my point. Why when new to the kilt people show up here are they not given more advice like this? Or why not steer them toward "American"/utility/non dressy kilts? If given this advice they could buy one article of clothing and nothing else.
I know personally in the 7 yrs I have only worn a kilt semi/formal 3 times. Most of us are not going to be attending balls and the like. I wear tshirts and boots with my kilts 99.9% of the time. Why does it feel like forced "traditionalism" and formality? If we really want to see the kilt worn as "normal" clothing we have to quite telling people that you have to wear, for example, a jacket(PC or argyle only)..vest..hose(better be diced, not white)..black knife(made of ebony or stag horn)..ghillie brogues..special hat(tam or any other type that no one has seen in fashion for a century). That is the whole reason UK has become known, they aren't pretentious.

Different horses for courses...I do several attend black tie functions throughout the year, but I don't see how that makes me "pretentious" because I choose to wear my Highland rig in a more traditional manner?

It's an old chestnut on this forum that somehow if you are a traditionalist, you are automatically a snob --and ironically, that charge is sometimes made by people calling for "tolerance" and making the kilt "normal" clothing. We're a' Jock Tamson's bairns, though.

UK's and other modern kilts just aren't my thing, but more power to you if you wish to wear them and a more casual style. There's a line from one of my favorite poems entitled "The Little Red God" that says:

Wear the garments he likes to wear,
Never dreaming that people stare

And then at the end of the poem:

He is kind and gentle, or harsh and gruff;
He is tender as love -- or he's rawhide tough;
A rough-necked rider in spurs and chaps,
Or well-groomed son of the town -- perhaps;
And this is the little Red God I sing,
Who cares not a wallop for anything
That walks or gallops, that crawls or struts,
No matter how clothed -- if it hasn't got guts.

A well-groomed son of the town is not always pretentious. If you are advocating a more informal style, then good on ya -- but please don't make potentially pejorative comments against those who do not share your style in doing so.

Respectfully,

Todd

[Jock Scot]

I guess this is exactly my point. Why when new to the kilt people show up here are they not given more advice like this? Or why not steer them toward "American"/utility/non dressy kilts? If given this advice they could buy one article of clothing and nothing else.
I know personally in the 7 yrs I have only worn a kilt semi/formal 3 times. Most of us are not going to be attending balls and the like. I wear tshirts and boots with my kilts 99.9% of the time. Why does it feel like forced "traditionalism" and formality? If we really want to see the kilt worn as "normal" clothing we have to quite telling people that you have to wear, for example, a jacket(PC or argyle only)..vest..hose(better be diced, not white)..black knife(made of ebony or stag horn)..ghillie brogues..special hat(tam or any other type that no one has seen in fashion for a century). That is the whole reason UK has become known, they aren't pretentious.

I suppose that is the trouble with asking advice. Well meaning people offer a genuine opinion from their particular point of view and based on their experiences and sometimes that opinion is bound to be not what the questioner wants to hear. If that is the case and if, the questioner is going to be so sensitive about the advice given , then perhaps it might have been better not to ask the question in the first place.

[RockyR]

I guess this is exactly my point. Why when new to the kilt people show up here are they not given more advice like this? Or why not steer them toward "American"/utility/non dressy kilts? If given this advice they could buy one article of clothing and nothing else.
I know personally in the 7 yrs I have only worn a kilt semi/formal 3 times. Most of us are not going to be attending balls and the like. I wear tshirts and boots with my kilts 99.9% of the time. Why does it feel like forced "traditionalism" and formality? If we really want to see the kilt worn as "normal" clothing we have to quite telling people that you have to wear, for example, a jacket(PC or argyle only)..vest..hose(better be diced, not white)..black knife(made of ebony or stag horn)..ghillie brogues..special hat(tam or any other type that no one has seen in fashion for a century). That is the whole reason UK has become known, they aren't pretentious.

While I agree with you, you (and other new poster on XMARKS) have to realize that there are different "mindsets" about wearing the kilt.

Some people want to see the kilt worn as everyday wear. They want to see kilts walking down the street on a regular basis.

Others DO NOT. They want to keep kilts for formal situations or for "special activities" and don't think kilts should be worn in all scenarios, every day.

Still others think that 1 or 2 less expensive kilts, worn to a festival once or twice a year, is all they need / want.

With these different ways of thinking, there are BOUND to be differing opinions on what style / how many / how expensive a kilt someone should have.

As Jock said, we can't ask for other people's advice and then be upset when the advice isn't what we wanted to hear. Now if someone gives UNSOLICITED advice, you can gladly tell them where to cram their opinion. We're pretty good up here of only giving feedback when it's requested though.

That being said, there was a question posed and many people responded, all from their point of view. Do we all agree? HEAVENS no. That's part of the beauty of XMARKS. You get different flavors, all of whom love the kilt, which is why we're here.

The perfect example is my post above. I don't agree with MacMillan of Rathdown's point of view, but I respect him for it and can openly disagree without "picking a fight". It just shows that differing views can co-exist.

[jkane]

I own a suit for when I want to go formal. At one point in my life, I owned 5 suits since I was wearing them every day. Even at that time, I also owned some shorts and blue jeans! Did I care where they came from? No, I just wanted somethign cheap to wear when I was out and about.

Today, I own a very cheap kilt. I wear it as often as I can. I have not coughed up the money for a very nice expensive dress kilt. I have it on my holiday wish list to my wife though. We'll see if it happens this year or not.

In the mean time, I can wear a kilt whenever I want, and not worry about it getting ruined by my making of merry! I do like to drink and dance in my kilt. Spilling and getting it messy is not just possible, it is LIKELY.

I see good reasons to own both.