Questioning thoughts

[macwilkin]

I could not agree with you more there MoR, on both your views on kilts and cars. In passing, Rolls Royce have made some very good armoured cars in their long and illustrious history.

"I should like my own Rolls-Royce car with enough tires and petrol to last me all my life".

-- T.E. Lawrence

http://www.historynet.com/rolls-royc...roof-ghost.htm

Methinks I'll have to break out Lawrence of Arabia tonight and skip to the scene where "Aurence" raids the Turkish train, just to see the mock-up Bulletproof Ghosts.

T.

[wildrover]

I guess this is exactly my point. Why when new to the kilt people show up here are they not given more advice like this?

I hate to jump on the dogpile ...but...they are given that advice. Whether they listen is up to them.

Or why not steer them toward "American"/utility/non dressy kilts?

We do that, too...all depends on the context. If you want to go hiking in your kilt, maybe you don't want to spend 600 bucks when a 300$ duck cloth MUG will do the trick. Now, if you want to go hiking in it, slide down a snowfield on your butt while wearing it, slog through a couple of creeks, do a little bushwhacking, wear it in a heavy rainstorm, then wash it out (or not ) and attend a formal event, then you should probably pony up the other three bills for some real armor, because wet cotton is...well, totally lame, and anyway it's reserved for cord-erasing gapers in the frontcountry during Spring Massive.

There's a solid element of functionality underneath all this fancy-dress, and while I know for a fact--from my own experience and seeing that of others--that it's easy to get lost in the fancy-dress...it's been my experience that the members of this forum are pretty savvy when it comes to guiding us n00bs in the right direction...so we're wearing clothing, not costumes.

If given this advice they could buy one article of clothing and nothing else.

I try. Others try. Few listen, when the price runs up a few hundred bucks. You can say this about anything. "They could buy one car...one stereo...one house...one...(etc)" but instant gratification and low price appeal to our hardwired human tendency to take the quick & easy way out.

Why does it feel like forced "traditionalism" and formality? If we really want to see the kilt worn as "normal" clothing we have to quit telling people that you have to wear, for example, a jacket(PC or argyle only)..vest..hose(better be diced, not white)..black knife(made of ebony or stag horn)..ghillie brogues..special hat(tam or any other type that no one has seen in fashion for a century).

I agree, as do...many others on this forum . Yes, there are people who post up saying they got all the clan tat stuff to go with their white hose and PC...and very gently, the members of this forum suggest alternatives to the caricature. There is no forcing, it's just that those items, that style, these things are pushed to a largely unaware consumer market, so the style is reinforced in ignorance.

Step away from the bleached white hose, the "clan set" box, and the guy at the Games table with the fake accent!

That is the whole reason UK has become known, they aren't pretentious.

They have their own pretensions, as do we all. It doesn't bug me.

Again, which is more useful? An 8yd PV that can be dressed up, or a MUG, which is basically blue jeans.

...Fire, and sharp rocks.

"cheap kilt advising, PC and ghillie brogue wearing-fancy-pants".

I think the longer you're here, the less you'll probably find that label to be true

Ain't that the plain truth!

As a Rolls-Royce/Bentley owner for more than 40 years I can tell you that the vast majority of us who own and drive what others call "The Best Car In The World" tend to view them, first and foremost, as transportation. I have <snip--apparently challenged someone or other to a classic "race around the world", kilted, from the sound of it! >

You use your car like I use my kilt. You also use your kilt...well, like I use my kilt!

I think what's overlooked is the tendency of some people to regard a traditional kilt as "precious" when, in fact, there is a very good reason that they have been nick-named "tanks".

Probably just the price tag. "Tank" is a good descriptor...I'll continue to wear what I consider "The Best Kilt In The World" in a manner demonstrating its comfort and durability, and heartily suggest to anyone that if they want to buy a kilt, just one kilt, that they spend six bills for a hand-sewn, 8 yard, knife pleat, 16oz, 100% wool, "tank"!

And yes, I'd go to the ball in my old Bentley.

Well yeah, it's a Bentley for cryin' out loud !

-Sean

[RockyR]

MofR... I think we're actually MOSTLY in agreement, but are coming at the same point from different angles.

The only things I'd take small exception to in MofR's post:

"I treat them no differently than any other garment in my wardrobe"

I would dare say that Kilts, are UNLIKE ANY other garment in your wardrobe. They can be dressed both up and down. They can be worn formally and informally. Can shorts be paired with a blazer (successfully)? Can suit pants be paired with a tshirt (successfully)?

I would say that Kilts are much more versatile than any other garment. The problem is that many people (especially Americans) want to save their "good dress outfit" for nice occasions and wear less expensive items for other occasions. It may be a different mindset that you'll wear your 8 yard wool kilt at all times. Maybe you just keep "cleaner" than I do. Maybe we are too "Scared to ruin it" if you wear it to the pub or to go hunting in.


The car analogy is still a valid one and I ask this... I know that you are / were fortunate enough to own a Rolls. I know that you drove it every day and that you enjoyed it and even got a second one. What I think needs exlploring is the FINANCIAL angle. If you all you can afford is a $20,000 car (or $5,000 or a $500 car), should you be told that it's "not a real car" when compared to a BMW or a Bently or a Rolls Royce (not saying that MofR SAID that, just playing devil's advocate)? Should you be told that you shouldn't buy that one... save up for a Rolls Royce as you'll be much happier with it (again... devil's advocate)? While there is a HUGE price difference between the car models and not THAT much more (comparitively speaking) in the kilts, there is still a difference.

I again point to my initial comments... so long as the company SELLING and the person BUYING understand the reality of what the item is and are comfortable with the costs involved, then it's a good match. "An informed consumer is a happy customer".

[Inchessi]

When you get ready to trade that "old Bentley", I have a 13-year-old Ford for you.

Yes, I remember when my Ford pick-up was new. That being said, I think I am gonna put on my $30 SWK and take the dog squirrel hunting.

[tulloch]

I could not agree with you more there MoR, on both your views on kilts and cars. In passing, Rolls Royce have made some very good armoured cars in their long and illustrious history.

And some aircraft engines that saved the world!

[tulloch]

I hate to bring this up but I have worn my tank with standard-cut Harris sport coats and with Harris flat or snap-brim caps. I am not too easily dominated by public sentiment concerning questions of style or, to put it another way, I have always had a strong confidence in my style. Its all good.

[azwildcat96]

Can suit pants be paired with a tshirt (successfully)?

I think Don Johnson (AKA Sonny Crockett) pulled this one off in Miami Vice...Of course that was in the 80's.

Now that I think about it, I think the Ferrari Daytona probably helped this look, just as a RR or Bentley does for MoR.

[Cygnus]

...


The car analogy is still a valid one and I ask this... I know that you are / were fortunate enough to own a Rolls. I know that you drove it every day and that you enjoyed it and even got a second one. What I think needs exlploring is the FINANCIAL angle. If you all you can afford is a $20,000 car (or $5,000 or a $500 car), should you be told that it's "not a real car" when compared to a BMW or a Bently or a Rolls Royce (not saying that MofR SAID that, just playing devil's advocate)? Should you be told that you shouldn't buy that one... save up for a Rolls Royce as you'll be much happier with it (again... devil's advocate)? While there is a HUGE price difference between the car models and not THAT much more (comparitively speaking) in the kilts, there is still a difference.

Continuing the clothing to cars analogy:
If somebody were to come to this forum and say, "I own no clothes at all!" I highly doubt anybody would tell him/her to just save those pennies and buy a $600 tank. If somebody is in need of personal transportation, there's no reason not to buy the $500 clunker. However, I think the advice to save up for a quality vehicle is good advice if the person's transportation needs are currently being met (as you, Rocky, said before). If a person needs a kilt ASAP, they could hire one or buy a low quality one - that's fine. If a person owns clothing and is looking into getting a kilt without any particular sense of urgency, I believe the advice to save and get a quality garment is just as valid. I really see no reason why somebody whose interest in kilting has been piqued should get one right away. A little research and a little saving (in most people's cases) will both ensure that what they get is really something to be proud of.

While MacMillan of Rathdown showed how versatile his vehicles have been and are, I think a real quality kilt is probably even more versatile.

I again point to my initial comments... so long as the company SELLING and the person BUYING understand the reality of what the item is and are comfortable with the costs involved, then it's a good match. "An informed consumer is a happy customer".

Very true. But the consumer should really be informed about both ends of the spectrum, the high end included - and that's what Scott has done very well with both cars and kilts!

[azwildcat96]

I think I am gonna put on my $30 SWK and take the dog squirrel hunting.

Inchessi, I like where you're head's at!

[Jaggy thistle]

As an everyday kilt wearer I think that there is justification in buying a cheap kilt for everyday wear I only wish they were made in Scotland !! Mlne cost £25 and I have worn it for 6 months nearly every day it is still all right but I would not wear it to a funcion the workmanship is good but the quality of the cloth lets it down !!buy a cheap kilt to see how you like the kilt then buy an 8 yd wool kilt