Pronunciation of Chattan?

[ThistleDown]

I have wondered what are the point of Group Memberships in this community, but there do seem to be a good number of names here that might associate themselves with Clan Chattan.

I was wondering whether we might create such a group here, with a single goal: to get our respective Clans to band together more, pitch their tables and tents next one another at Games, and march together in parades such as the NYC Tartan Day Parade.

Let me know, here or in Personal Message, what you think of this?

Certainly worth considering, Mark. As I understand it, in the US it is often nigh on impossible to get Games Committees to allow the Chattan constituent clans to march together and/or have their tents together. I've never quite understood the objection. If you get enough interest you may want to start a new thread.

Rex

[Morris at Heathfield]

Only for those that don't speak like the natives. It has the Mexica (Aztec) pronunciation of meh-HEE-coh.

But that is a just a wee bit off topic.

EDIT: My point was to say that I've never heard natives pronounce the "x" in "Mexico" as anything but an "h" sound, and I know plenty of them. That's not to say, though, that the "x" wasn't a "kh" sound in the Nahuatl languages prior to the Spanish influence.

You're right. Theoretically, the Spanish j, g (before i and e), and x (when it isn't pronounced like Latin x), are all pronounced like the ch in "loch", but my trusty Spanish dictionary notes that that sound is pronounced more like English "h" in the Central American countries. (It doesn't say anything one way or another about its pronunciation in Mexico.)

As for the Nahuatl and other Indian languages, it's my understanding that the letter x in Spanish was pronounced much like English sh at the time the Spaniards arrived, and so was used to spell that same sound in those languages. Later, as the sound changed to "kh" in Spanish, the spelling was often changed to j. This is evident in the name of Texas, for example, which is now spelled "Tejas" in Spanish.

And I agree that the constituent clans of Clan Chattan should be permitted to march together. I imagine the objection is that the clans normally appear in nice, orderly, alphabetical order, and grouping up the constituent clans of Clan Chattan would throw off that order.

[Cygnus]

Morris of Heathfield, you're quite right!

I speak Portuguese as a second language and am regularly informed by other Portuguese speakers that the language is closer to "true Spanish" than modern Spanish is. And the "X" in Portuguese is still pronounced "sh".

I also noticed that in Bernal Dias' journal, he spells Tlaxcala "Tlascala" and even changes the spelling of Mexica from time to time. I wonder when the shift from "s" and "sh" to just "h" occurred? It's also interesting that it is less of a "kh" sound in South and Central America, and that makes me wonder if it wasn't pronounced more like a simple "h" by the natives to begin with? Now I'll have to look into it.

As a (probable) member of Clan MacQueen, I would be thrilled of Clan Chattan was allowed to march together and keep their tents together. Clan MacQueen rarely has much representation at all (if any - at least around here) and it would be nice to have someone to march with!

[Mike_Oettle]

Rex wrote: “. . . there are no ‘claimants’ to the chiefship of Clan Chattan . . .”

Indeed. My humble apologies to Mackintosh of Torcastle and to all other Chattan chiefs. I had read that the chiefship was at one time disputed, and had momentarily forgotten that the matter was resolved by a decision of Lyon Court.

With regard to Spanish, this thread has brought up some interesting differences between Latin America and Iberia, some of which I was unaware of.
I do know that in Spain (or at any rate in Castile) the letter c is pronounced as English th (soft th, or Þ), while in the Americas it is simply an s-sound. Apparently one of the kings of Spain had a lisp, and it became fashionable to lisp like his majesty. The colonials never took to this new-fangled idea.
But ç is always pronounced as s.
Language is a fascinating topic, always bringing up fresh aspects.
Regards,
Mike

[macwilkin]

But ç is always pronounced as s.

And I have an example, Mike -- my wife's ancestors, the Melansons, who were Acadian French in Nova Scotia, became Melancons in Louisiana. Ironically, family legend believed that the Melansons were Scots who intermarried with the Acadians, but scholarly research now believes them have originated in Yorkshire.

T.