Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
I've had a couple of questions about how to difference arms when the usual conventions cause problems or would be unclear. I've prepared two examples:

1.


In this case (and correct me if I'm wrong) the Stodart system would divide the bordure per pale with a colour denoting the son's birth order. However, this leads to the breaking of the "no metals on metals" rule (as the dexter side would be Argent and the sinister side would be Or). How would one deal with this?
In this instance the metals are beside one another and the convention of not placing metal on metal (or colour on colour) is not contravened. This side-by side placement occurs frequently when arms are divided party per cross (that is quartered) or less frequently when divided per fess or per pale.

Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
2.


In the second case, the "question shield" would (and again, correct me if I'm wrong) have the bordure split as above. In this instance, both sides of the border would be Gules so the bearer's arms would be identical to those of his father and eldest brother. Would the sinister half be chequy Gules and Argent? Or is there another way to show the bearer's place within the family?

I apologize if some or all of my assumptions are off-base; I admit to having limited resources on the subject.

Thank you, once again, for tolerating all of my questions!
Bordures are used as the cadets come off the stem, and not in any particular particular generation (see Gayre, Heraldic Cadency pg. 140). When a situation arises that a bordure might be indistinguishable from the field (argent with a bordure argent) the bordure is represented as chequey (as in the arms of Innes of Edingight-- argent three mullets azure within a bordure chequey argent and azure).

Now, generally speaking, in the instance of your "?" shield the bordure would be per pale, gules (red) and chequey argent (white) and azure (blue), the argent and azure being derived from the principle metal and colour of the arms.

I hope that answers your question!

Scott