To Black Watch or not to Black Watch?

[Dale Seago]

Given that the kilt itself is a post-Renaissance garment. . .

'Nother pertinent point there.

The Renaissance is considered to cover roughly the 1300s through 1500s, so any form of the kilt would be restricted to the feileadh mor -- and that would only fit the latter half of the 1500s.

If you want to be "period correct" for the Renaissance, your best bet as a Scottish Gael would be Irish attire of the same period -- a leine and brat -- as the Irish and Scottish Gael dressed essentially the same way through that era.

EDIT: Oh, and the baskethilt broadsword only came on the scene for the Highland Gael in the mid-to-late 1500s: It, the belted plaid, and the Great Highland Bagpipe all seem to have come into prominence at about the same time, or at least in the same century.

[Zardoz]

questions on the Black Watch tartan:

Can I get away with wearing a kilt and not a great kilt for this costuming?

Get away with it? Sure, lots of people do! we had a ren-faire kit discussion here;

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...nsensus-61540/

As long as you don't mistake the "renaissance faire" for a "period correct renaissance era re-enactment" you may 'get away' with a tailored kilt and lots of other 'anachronistic' things as part of your costume.
Same applies to the Black Watch/Campbell/Grant Hunting/gov't sett tartan, it may not have been around in that time period, but you certainly see it often enough at faires. Have fun!

[macwilkin]

Comment deleted.

[Dale Seago]

Get away with it? Sure, lots of people do! we had a ren-faire kit discussion here;

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...nsensus-61540/

As long as you don't mistake the "renaissance faire" for a "period correct renaissance era re-enactment" you may 'get away' with a tailored kilt and lots of other 'anachronistic' things as part of your costume.
Same applies to the Black Watch/Campbell/Grant Hunting/gov't sett tartan, it may not have been around in that time period, but you certainly see it often enough at faires. Have fun!

That's the bottom line for Faires, which don't really pay a lot of attention to being PC (Period Correct). Heck, if you wanted I'm sure you'd be welcome as a Renaissance (terrestrial) era pre-Contact Klingon.

Seriously. You could be doing some kinda timetravelweirdwarpthing checking out pre-Federation Contact human culture. It'd be grreat, laddie, and the lassies would all want tae ken aboot any differences in yer. . .parts. . .

What does a Klingon wear under his kilt when he's dressing as a Terran Scot?

[macwilkin]

That's the bottom line for Faires, which don't really pay a lot of attention to being PC (Period Correct). Heck, if you wanted I'm sure you'd be welcome as a Renaissance (terrestrial) era pre-Contact Klingon.

Seriously. You could be doing some kinda timetravelweirdwarpthing checking out pre-Federation Contact human culture. It'd be grreat, laddie, and the lassies would all want tae ken aboot any differences in yer. . .parts. . .

What does a Klingon wear under his kilt when he's dressing as a Terran Scot?

Unfortunately, I bit a "fare" number (pun intended) of fare-goers/general public think everything they see is 100% accurate --- yet another mess for history teachers to clean up!

T.

[Bog Trotter]

See Matt's article above; The late noted tartan scholar Jamie Scarlett proposed that regimental tartans gave rise to clan tartans, and not the other way around.

I can't say I've seen any source that support the claim that Highlanders seconded to Roger's Rangers wore a kilt; there were a number of Highland regiments serving in North America during the F & I of course -- do you have such a source?

Bottom line: the Black Watch tartan would not be appropriate for a Renaissance Fair.

T.

In response to Cajunscot's question concerning Highlanders being kilted serving with Rogers Rangers. My first source for this is the book, 18TH Century Highlanders (Men-At-Arms Series) by Stuart Reid. On page 16 is an entry from a surgeon, an eye witness who stated," The Highlanders have put on breeches and Lord How's Filabegs".
The second book, "Armies of the American Wars 1753-1815 (page 35) by Philip Katcher, refers to the same entry from the surgeon. The Lord How referred to was Lord George Howe, then serving with Rogers Rangers. Lord Howe was trained by Major Robert Rogers, and was with a scouting party party of rangers and Light Infantry when he was killed in a brief firefight against the French near Fort Ticonderoga on 6 July, 1758. There were Highlanders serving with Lord Howe at the time, although I am not certain as to the number.
The source indicates that the Highlanders serving with Lord Howe were ordered to wear breeches, filabegs and other modified equipment ordered by Howe. I hope this info. is helpful.

[macwilkin]

In response to Cajunscot's question concerning Highlanders being kilted serving with Rogers Rangers. My first source for this is the book, 18TH Century Highlanders (Men-At-Arms Series) by Stuart Reid. On page 16 is an entry from a surgeon, an eye witness who stated," The Highlanders have put on breeches and Lord How's Filabegs".
The second book, "Armies of the American Wars 1753-1815 (page 35) by Philip Katcher, refers to the same entry from the surgeon. The Lord How referred to was Lord George Howe, then serving with Rogers Rangers. Lord Howe was trained by Major Robert Rogers, and was with a scouting party party of rangers and Light Infantry when he was killed in a brief firefight against the French near Fort Ticonderoga on 6 July, 1758. There were Highlanders serving with Lord Howe at the time, although I am not certain as to the number.
The source indicates that the Highlanders serving with Lord Howe were ordered to wear breeches, filabegs and other modified equipment ordered by Howe. I hope this info. is helpful.

Many thanks; I have the Reid book on a shelf about 10 feet away from where I'm typing this post.

The breeches in question may be a field-expedient adaptation of Indian leggings by Highlanders...

T.

[Dale Seago]

The breeches in question may be a field-expedient adaptation of Indian leggings by Highlanders....

That would make sense. Rogers and those under him seem as a rule to have been more interested in "what works well" than in what was "fashionable" for military use.

[Mike_Oettle]

Dale Seago wrote: “So if someone jumped on you about wearing a particular tartan because it ‘belongs to’ Clan X you could just reply, ‘Neener neener, doesn’t either, it’s 1690 and Clan X doesn't have a tartan yet.’ ”

Somehow this doesn’t ring true for me. And I am not entirely happy with Todd’s (Cajunscot’s) approach either – “. . . perhaps it's better to wear a non-named tartan”.
To my mind, the problem with a non-named tartan is that once is woven, it has an existence, and logically should have a name. Simply insisting that it is nameless seems rather silly to me.
Certainly one should strive to wear garments that fit the period – the breacan feile rather than the filibeg – and to use colours that were actually produced in those times.
But one is still stuck with the question: What tartans were worn in those days? And the answer is: We don’t know.
So anything one comes up with is an invention.
And, as Zardoz remarks: “As long as you don't mistake the ‘renaissance faire’ for a ‘period-correct renaissance era re-enactment’ you may ‘get away’ with a tailored kilt and lots of other ‘anachronistic’ things as part of your costume.

Perhaps in closing I should quote Yul Brynner as the King of Siam: “Is a puzzlement!”
Regarfds,
Mike

[Geoff Withnell]

Get away with it? Sure, lots of people do! we had a ren-faire kit discussion here;

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...nsensus-61540/

As long as you don't mistake the "renaissance faire" for a "period correct renaissance era re-enactment" you may 'get away' with a tailored kilt and lots of other 'anachronistic' things as part of your costume.
Same applies to the Black Watch/Campbell/Grant Hunting/gov't sett tartan, it may not have been around in that time period, but you certainly see it often enough at faires. Have fun!

Black Watch at a Ren Fair? Heck, I've seen Isle of Skye, Albbanach, Leatherneck and a slew of other late 20th/early21st century tartans at Ren Fairs. What with fairies, harem girls and what not, an out of period tartan is unlikely to be noticed.

Hmmmm, to jump off topic here, if a group of crows is a murder, and group of sheep is a flock, what is a group of tartans?

Geoff Withnell