The Monarchy and the kilt

[Sylvain]

Mistake

[Sylvain]

1986? Charles was 38 then!

There was once. To paraphrase Michael Caine 'Not many people know this!'



The Royal Family's Christmas Card in 1986. I handwove the Prince Charles Edward tartan (Diana was a descendent of Charles II).

[artificer]

1986? Charles was 38 then!

Aye, the little one on the left is William, the seated boy in the center is Harry, if I'm not mistaken?

[McClef]

Aye, the little one on the left is William, the seated boy in the center is Harry, if I'm not mistaken?

You are correct.

The boy behind Harry is Peter Phillips and the girl on the right is Zara Phillips - they are the children of Princess Anne, the Princess Royal by her first marriage.

[Tobus]

If I may, I'd like to ask a question to our Scottish brethren who know the Scottish mentality on kilt-wearing. Isn't there a somewhat general attitude of derision towards non-Scots who wear the kilt while they are visiting Scotland? I've seen it suggested on this board that some Scots believe that only native Scots should wear the kilt (and only in the proper Highlands), even though that mentality may be a bit outdated.

If that's the case, then do Scots in general find it good or bad that English royalty may no longer wear the kilt? In other words, if Scots generally feel that the kilt is a distinctive Highland garment and should retain a sense of purity, why would they mourn the choice of a thoroughly English prince not to wear it?

[Jock Scot]

Without getting too wound up with technical details of the breeding of of our Royal Family, the Prince's Grand mother is the Queen of Scotland and his Great Grand Mother was a Highland lass through and through and they do own a fairly large chunk of the Highlands with more than a couple of fairly substantial pads on it. So in my book, if he so chooses to wear the kilt, then he is more than entitled to do so.

[Tobus]

Ah, OK. So matrilineal Scottishness really is acceptable by most Scots? I thought it was generally accepted in Scotland that only the father's lines mattered.

[macwilkin]

If I may, I'd like to ask a question to our Scottish brethren who know the Scottish mentality on kilt-wearing. Isn't there a somewhat general attitude of derision towards non-Scots who wear the kilt while they are visiting Scotland? I've seen it suggested on this board that some Scots believe that only native Scots should wear the kilt (and only in the proper Highlands), even though that mentality may be a bit outdated.

If that's the case, then do Scots in general find it good or bad that English royalty may no longer wear the kilt? In other words, if Scots generally feel that the kilt is a distinctive Highland garment and should retain a sense of purity, why would they mourn the choice of a thoroughly English prince not to wear it?

Just a slight correction, but in this case, we are referring to British royalty, and not just English royalty.*

* A statement of fact only.

T.

[Jock Scot]

Ah, OK. So matrilineal Scottishness really is acceptable by most Scots? I thought it was generally accepted in Scotland that only the father's lines mattered.

No not quite,the father's name usually, but not always, takes precedence. Don't forget the Prince's Grand Father is the Duke of Edinburgh and the Prince's Father is the Duke of Rothsay.If the Prince wanted to, he could go back to the Stewarts------but lets not go there.

[BobsYourUncle]

Ah, OK. So matrilineal Scottishness really is acceptable by most Scots? I thought it was generally accepted in Scotland that only the father's lines mattered.

During what period in history? In Celtic societies, if you go back far enough, inheritance and family relations were reckoned through the mother--there was physical evidence as to who the mother was, fatherhood was a great deal less certain. Although scholars dispute it, the Picts are said to have had a matrilineal system of succession for their rulers.

Clan association can be either matrilineal or patrilineal. One must distinguish between the way families and clans worked in general, as opposed to succession to kingship or clan chieftanship. Succession of clan chiefs took place according to something called tanistry, which in practice combined inheritance with consent of the clan. For a general overview [weak in source citations], see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottis..._and_authority

It was when the Lowland and English legal systems came to prevail in Scotland that male inheritance became the way property was transferred from one generation to another.

Of note to those conducting genealogy searches, the cultural influence of this matrilineal historical practice was preserved when the church began to keep written Parish registers. In Scotland, the wife did not lose her birth name in the registers even after marriage--accordingly, I , and others, have had great success in tracing female lines of descent in the Old Parish Registers, now available online at Scotlandspeople.org.

So, for me, the bottom line is that female lines remain valid in deciding clan association, even if they ceased to be the primary way of determining property inheritance long, long ago.

I have no idea how this issue is viewed by people in Scotland currently.