When to Tip or Remove Ones' Hat

[Mike_Oettle]

Bruce, while the American use of “Sir” strikes me as odd in some instances, it is a well established usage in South Africa, which has followed traditional British usage in this respect.
Perhaps modern-day Britons make less use of it – it would be interesting to hear about this from other folk in that part of the world.
I have often read that American boys (some of them, at least) address their father as “Sir”, while I have never encountered that in South Africa.
And I find utterly strange the US military practice of addressing a non-commissioned officer as “Sir”. This form of address properly belongs to commissioned officers, like our Jock (Captain, Sir!).

In South Africa, a book on republican etiquette was produced in the early 1960s which emanated from an Afrikaans-speaking source and entirely misunderstood the English-speaking use of “Sir”.
In Afrikaans one addresses a civilian adult male as “meneer”, but never a military man.
The authors of this work on etiquette pontificated that it was improper in a republican army to call an officer “Sir”, and insisted that the officer’s rank be used instead as a form of address.
It also stated that the practice of addressing a subaltern (army lieutenant or second lieutenant) as Mr (Mr Smith, Mr Jones) was unsuitable in the republic.
While this is entirely proper in Afrikaans, it is foreign to South Africa’s military tradition in English.
And I am proud to say that at least in my regiment, subalterns were still addressed as Mr during my years of service. I believe this was done in most, if not all English-medium regiments. However, in units where Afrikaners predominated, it fell away.

An oddity that survived South Africa’s becoming a republic was that in the police force, warrant officers were regarded as civilians and were addressed as “meneer” (in Afrikaans) and as “Sir” (in English).
But around the time that I was in uniform, the Afrikaner-dominated Police College in Pretoria came up with the idea that one did not address a warrant officer as “meneer”, and instead used “adjudant”.
(The Afrikaans equivalent of warrant officer is adjudant-offisier. This follows French practice – although in the French military, an adjudant is a member of the officers’ mess, not the NCOs’ mess.)
The police rank of warrant officer disappeared in 1994, and only reappeared this year. I have yet to learn what policemen and women call their warrant officers nowadays.
Regards,
Mike

[Big Mikey]

Whoda thunk that a simple, respectful and courteous greeting could generate so much discussion? I am most pleased to read the comments regarding the use of "Sir" as a salutation. In my every day life, I always use "Sir" or "Ma'am" when addressing someone I either do not know or have just met. To my thinking it is just that, courteous and respectful regardless whether the individual be military or civilian. The preceding is just one fat, old man's opinion.

[Mike_Oettle]

Big Mikey wrote: “In my every day life, I always use ‘Sir’ or ‘Ma’am’ when addressing someone I either do not know or have just met.”

That is the way we use those words in South Africa, Mikey. I was noting certain exceptions.
Regards,
Mike

[Jack Daw]

I was raised in the south and southwest where sir and ma'am were quite common among peers as well as superiors ad the elderly. Now, the usage seems reserved for the elderly.

[Tobus]

I always find it peculiar to hear Americans call somebody, "Sir". It is sooo American to British ears!

Slainte

Bruce

If "sir" is not used as a polite form of address, what do people in your area say instead?

I was raised in the south and southwest where sir and ma'am were quite common among peers as well as superiors ad the elderly. Now, the usage seems reserved for the elderly.

Same here. I would be in deep trouble if I took a familiar or casual tone with an adult. It was always "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to my elders. And we were never allowed to address our elders by their first name unless they were a family friend, in which case it was always preceded by "mister" or "miss". For example, the correct response to my father's friend would be "yes sir, Mister John".

Nowadays it seems that people actually get offended at being called sir or ma'am, because it makes them feel old.

[Cygnus]

If "sir" is not used as a polite form of address, what do people in your area say instead?

They're just impolite.

Nowadays it seems that people actually get offended at being called sir or ma'am, because it makes them feel old.

They do indeed. I can't say I've ever had a negative response to calling a man "sir", but in working various jobs in college I'd often have women become upset when I used the term "ma'am".

I've taught my daughter to use those terms, though, and to refer to adults as Mr., Ms., or Mrs. followed by the person's surname. I hope that those habits survive as she continues to grow up, but I know not a one of her preschool friends uses such words.

Kids these days, eh?

[Tobus]

I can't say I've ever had a negative response to calling a man "sir"

I can't tell you how many times I've been told, "don't call me sir; my father's not here." It almost seems like the automatic response that people have learned somewhere and repeat without thinking about it.

[BoldHighlander]

And I find utterly strange the US military practice of addressing a non-commissioned officer as “Sir”. This form of address properly belongs to commissioned officers, like our Jock (Captain, Sir!).

Mike, if you were in the US Army and refer to a non-com as "Sir" you'd get the standard reply "I'm not an officer, I work for a living."

To tell the truth, the only time I've heard a US military non-com addressed as "Sir" is a Marine Corps D.I. (as I was an Army grunt, and my experience is therefore limited, I could be mistaken about it's usage in other branches).

[manfrozeninaglacier]

I believe the Air Force also calls their senior enlisted "sir"; on the other hand they use first names like they are civilians. Being a Sailor, I can vouch that we do not call our enlisted "sir" (or ma'am). I guess that came from the days that all officers through LCDR were addressed as Mister (rather than their rank).
Thinking about it, even in the military, different branches have different rules regarding the wearing of hats (covers), but I guess this thread was started regarding hat courtesies, not working situations.

[Geoff Withnell]

Mike, if you were in the US Army and refer to a non-com as "Sir" you'd get the standard reply "I'm not an officer, I work for a living."

To tell the truth, the only time I've heard a US military non-com addressed as "Sir" is a Marine Corps D.I. (as I was an Army grunt, and my experience is therefore limited, I could be mistaken about it's usage in other branches).

Only recruits address DIs as "Sir", but then recruits have to address anyone not a recruit as "Sir" or "Ma'am", even a non-recruit private. Interestingly, addressing an commissioned officer by his/her rank is a sign of having less than full respect for the officer in question. E.g "Aye aye, Sir" indicates normal respect. "Aye aye, Major" indicates either a lack of respect, or a belief that the order is unwise. It is difficult to do anything about this disrespect, since this is a valid means of address per the regs.

Geoff Withnell