Ex-hire Tartan?

**biblemonkey** · 28th October 10, 10:14 AM

A Scottish gentleman I know pointed something interesting out while I was reading your responses to my dilemma over the ex-hire kilt I am purchasing. The Hynde and the Muted Sutherland I'm looking at in the 8yd hand stitched are very similar tartans. A base of green with a red pattern throughout. Considering I have ties through family to Graham AND Hynde but the Hynde is next to impossible to find at a decent price if at all (most kilt makers do them as a one shot because they are not requested often so the price skyrockets) I could wear the Muted Sutherland as a variation/alternative of the Hynde the way my grandmother wears the Maclean for the same reason. I figure if the Maclean is close enough for grandma then the Muted Suterland is close enough for me.Take a look and let me know what you think.

The Hynde
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tar....aspx?ref=1806

The Muted Sutherland
http://arizonakilts.com/images/DSC01291.jpg
http://arizonakilts.com/images/Nice%...20Guys_jpg.jpg

Not exact to be sure but the basic similarities are there. I would of course be honest about the true nature of the tartan (as dear old grandma does with the Maclean) but it is close enough, I feel to warrant consideration as a decent alternative. Seeing as that is the only tartan he has (other than the Scotland the Brave that I already have) that I like enough to buy right now, what do you think?

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 28th October 10, 04:00 PM

As I have never been of the "buy it now" school of economics, and even though I have "connections" to all sorts of other Scottish clans, I subscribe to the typically Highland concept of wearing the tartan most closely associated with my surname, in this instance Macmillan.

That said, my advice to you would be: determine to which clan you belong, save up your pennies, and buy a 16oz kilt in that clan's tartan.

**Highland Logan** · 28th October 10, 04:22 PM

I think there is no other choice than the one given by MoR. Imagine if your local flag shop was sold out of your country/state/province/territory... etc. flag. Would you wait till you could have one ordered in, you do you just pick up the closest one based on colour and style and say it's good enough? For those who wear their Clan tartan only, there can only be one choice... wait till you can get the right one rather than a bad substitute.

Frank

**piperdbh** · 28th October 10, 05:23 PM

My advice, in case it matters, is to fully investigate having the Hynde tartan woven and made into a kilt. Most if not all the kiltmakers here can help you with the process, and you'll have something that is more meaningful than buying a kilt because it's "close enough". My Lockhart kilt was a special run of the fabric, but I could have settled for Davidson because they look similar. I'm very glad I didn't do that, because a year or two ago my uncle divorced his wife, who is a Davidson, and I'd feel funny about wearing her family's tartan. Not that I have anything against any Davidsons (other than her).

The other advice is as follows: if you can't find a tartan with a family connection, is there a state/county/province/city/district tartan that would work for you?

**davidlpope** · 28th October 10, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

That said, my advice to you would be: determine to which clan you belong, save up your pennies, and buy a 16oz kilt in that clan's tartan.

***

**biblemonkey** · 29th October 10, 09:45 AM

A preface to my reply: Sorry if this comes off as defensive. That was not my intention. It seemed some missed the intent of the post and so I re-post to clear it up. My original question was a tongue in cheek comparison to see what kind of scrutiny I would dredge up. Thanks, however for your helpful suggestions and your heartfelt opinions.

In all, guys, I have investigated doing the Hynde. Like I said, I would have to buy a minimum shipment of the wool which for the mills I looked at would be around $500 all by itself (not including the international shipping), hire a kilt maker, etc, just to get a good Hynde kilt. The hynde is not a very oft used tartan and as such there are certain hoops you have to go through to get it. It’s like buying a puppy, not for the joy you would get in raising it and loving it, but so you can show everyone its breeding papers. The cost and trouble would get you pretty much the same end result but you would be different for the attitude you express in its display. All I was doing was pointing out that, being as I just like to wear kilts in general and most of the Scottish nationals that I know don't care what tartan you wear unless you are at a clan function or other formal gathering, and since I just wanted a decent substitute that I could afford instead of the custom made one-shot which I already explained would run me around $1,000 for one kilt, this seemed a good choice. As I said, my Scottish born grandmother doesn’t mind wearing the Maclean as an alternative to the Hynde for the same cost and availability issues and she doesn’t have any problem with me wearing the Sutherland as long as I wear the kilt honorably. I am going to (hopefully) be able to save up for a Weathered Graham of Mentieth 5yd from USAkilts sometime this coming year in order to have the clan tartan that I am most connected too in a variation that most pleases me personally for formal occasions. This was just a tongue in cheek way of asking if I could slip this past the "kilt police" that you find far too often on kilt message boards. I guess it doesn’t hold up to that kind of scrutiny. Oh, well. Though I respect your opinions I’m still going to wear it proudly and let the chips fall where they may. As far as the example of flags, I have never been much one for “king and country” and all that. Flags mean nothing. Only God and family matter to me and if they give their blessing I care not what all else think. I think the kilt itself is an international symbol of Scottish pride and strength. I wear them with pride, honor, and in a fun loving spirit, as we all should regardless of our “right” to wear a particular tartan. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind for the future.

God bless the kilted everywhere and all who see them,
Hugh

**Catdad** · 29th October 10, 10:02 AM

BM, I know you are talking about Graeme at Arizona Kilts and I was just in his shop yesterday. I've seen the muted Sutherlands you are talking about in person and they are great! You can't beat the quality or the price (I don't think you will ever find a top quality kilt at his prices). You would never know they were ex-rentals.

Thankfully Graeme doesn't have any more kilts in my size and that has saved me a bullet hole. A bullet hole, you say? Yes, because my wife would shoot me if I bought another kilt!

**biblemonkey** · 29th October 10, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Catdad

BM, I know you are talking about Graeme at Arizona Kilts and I was just in his shop yesterday. I've seen the muted Sutherlands you are talking about in person and they are great! You can't beat the quality or the price (I don't think you will ever find a top quality kilt at his prices). You would never know they were ex-rentals.

Thankfully Graeme doesn't have any more kilts in my size and that has saved me a bullet hole. A bullet hole, you say? Yes, because my wife would shoot me if I bought another kilt!

Graeme is a treasure in this industry. I have his Scotland the Brave and it was all he said it was and more. That's one reason why I'm pushing so hard to get the Muted Sutherland. He had a couple in my size and was willing, because of our previous transaction and discussions on the phone, to hold it one extra week for me until I get the funds together. I think I'm done excusing the tartans I wear on a daily basis. A kilt that nice for that price is enough reason for me!

God bless the kilted everywhere and all who see them!

**Irish Jack O'Brian** · 29th October 10, 12:20 PM

I am awaiting the arrival of my new Sutherland Muted from Graeme. I have had three phone conversations with Graeme and learned more from them than all the web searching I've done for six months. He talks fast and says a lot.

One avenue you might pursue in getting your Weathered Graham of Mentieth kilt, is to stay in touch with Graeme. I understand that when he gets resettled in Aberdeen that he will be available for consultations and I bet he can get the best deal that can be had.

**biblemonkey** · 29th October 10, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by seumasFinn

Episcopalian vestments are pretty similar to Roman Catholic, and the altar place is similar, and they've rosaries too, so when i can't find a Catholic parish i can stomach which is quite the norm being rather better at theory than practice, I'll settle for an Episcopalian parish. Religion is not the issue after all.

If you'll forgive the tongue in cheek pisstaking...

My feelings exactly if I understood the post correctly. Religion is not (or at least should not be) the issue. God, Christ, simple faith put into loving motion towards your fellow man as directed in the Bible. That's what it's about. Traditions made by men should not be enough to separate us from one another if (paraphrasing) "..life, nor death, nor any power can separate us from the love of God..."

Sorry, off topic I know but I'm a man of many passions. Forgive the preaching and carry on.