Maclean or MacLean

[ForresterModern]

Regarding Ellis Island as it relates to Scots/Scots-Irish in America:

Ellis Island probably played only a minute part in the Scots and Scots Irish immigrations to the US, if any. Until 1892 Ellis Island had been a sometimes staffed, sometimes abandoned military base, that was later expanded and amalgamated to its current landmass by landfill (moslty from constuction projects elsewhere in the area). Prior to 1892 most NYC immigration was administered in one or more of several land based centers around the city. With passage of significant immigration legislation by the federal government in 1892 Ellis Island became the major east coast immigration center we all have heard stories about, but that lasted only until about 1924 (yes only about 32 years) whereupon its immigration duties diminished significantly and it became primarily a center for detention and deportation for immigration related cases, until its ultimate closure in 1954. Millions of new americans were processed through Ellis island in its 32 year boon, but these were mostly of eastern and southern european origin, and a significant irish population. Although statements about half of Americans being able to trace at least one relative to the Ellis Island immigration route may be true, I think that is more likely due to huge numbers of immigrants processed through there and the subsequent breadth of intercultural marriages that have occurred in the years since.

Considering most of the Scots and Scots Irish waves of immigrants occurred before, during and in the 100 years after the American Revolutionary War, it is unlikely that most of Scots or Scots-Irish ancestry had their line come through Ellis Island, although more likely that those who did have actual records of those (relatively recent) immigrations, compared to those of us whose families came in the preceding waves before (1635 in my case), as complete records either were never kept in those earlier days, or, in the case of thosee who ended up in Confederate states during the Civil War, were destroyed as a result of that war and lost to history forever. But most Scots were already here long before Ellis Island ever opened or closed its doors. They just either haven't, can't trace their ancestry that many generations back to their original immigrant ancestors, or aren't particularly interested in doing so.

One man's opinion.

We now return you to your regular programming. Sorry for the temporary threadjack.

jeff

[macwilkin]

Regarding Ellis Island as it relates to Scots/Scots-Irish in America:

Ellis Island probably played only a minute part in the Scots and Scots Irish immigrations to the US, if any. Until 1892 Ellis Island had been a sometimes staffed, sometimes abandoned military base, that was later expanded and amalgamated to its current landmass by landfill (moslty from constuction projects elsewhere in the area). Prior to 1892 most NYC immigration was administered in one or more of several land based centers around the city. With passage of significant immigration legislation by the federal government in 1892 Ellis Island became the major east coast immigration center we all have heard stories about, but that lasted only until about 1924 (yes only about 32 years) whereupon its immigration duties diminished significantly and it became primarily a center for detention and deportation for immigration related cases, until its ultimate closure in 1954. Millions of new americans were processed through Ellis island in its 32 year boon, but these were mostly of eastern and southern european origin, and a significant irish population. Although statements about half of Americans being able to trace at least one relative to the Ellis Island immigration route may be true, I think that is more likely due to huge numbers of immigrants processed through there and the subsequent breadth of intercultural marriages that have occurred in the years since.

Considering most of the Scots and Scots Irish waves of immigrants occurred before, during and in the 100 years after the American Revolutionary War, it is unlikely that most of Scots or Scots-Irish ancestry had their line come through Ellis Island, although more likely that those who did have actual records of those (relatively recent) immigrations, compared to those of us whose families came in the preceding waves before (1635 in my case), as complete records either were never kept in those earlier days, or, in the case of thosee who ended up in Confederate states during the Civil War, were destroyed as a result of that war and lost to history forever. But most Scots were already here long before Ellis Island ever opened or closed its doors. They just either haven't, can't trace their ancestry that many generations back to their original immigrant ancestors, or aren't particularly interested in doing so.

One man's opinion.

We now return you to your regular programming. Sorry for the temporary threadjack.

jeff

Spot on, Jeff. Most Scots-Irish came through Philadelphia in the early to mid 1700s.

T.

[creagdhubh]

One of the best parts in the movie, INMHO. In the book, the Rev. Maclean clarifies it even further by stating that everyone will think they're Lowlanders and not Islanders.

T.

Precisely Todd! Sandy could best clear this up, however from my understanding the "L" is not capitalized.

[Paul Henry]

Precisely Todd! Sandy could best clear this up, however from my understanding the "L" is not capitalized.

see post #11 for the answer

[ThistleDown]

Precisely Todd! Sandy could best clear this up, however from my understanding the "L" is not capitalized.

Answered earlier in the thread somewhere, Kyle. In the US, just as in Scotland, the spelling is this way and that way and all are correct. It is the pronunciation of the name Maclean that's a chuckle for Scots.

[ThistleDown]

Regarding Ellis Island as it relates to Scots/Scots-Irish in America:

Ellis Island probably played only a minute part in the Scots and Scots Irish immigrations to the US, if any. Until 1892 Ellis Island had been a sometimes staffed, sometimes abandoned military base, that was later expanded and amalgamated to its current landmass by landfill (moslty from constuction projects elsewhere in the area). Prior to 1892 most NYC immigration was administered in one or more of several land based centers around the city. With passage of significant immigration legislation by the federal government in 1892 Ellis Island became the major east coast immigration center we all have heard stories about, but that lasted only until about 1924 (yes only about 32 years) whereupon its immigration duties diminished significantly and it became primarily a center for detention and deportation for immigration related cases, until its ultimate closure in 1954. Millions of new americans were processed through Ellis island in its 32 year boon, but these were mostly of eastern and southern european origin, and a significant irish population. Although statements about half of Americans being able to trace at least one relative to the Ellis Island immigration route may be true, I think that is more likely due to huge numbers of immigrants processed through there and the subsequent breadth of intercultural marriages that have occurred in the years since.

Considering most of the Scots and Scots Irish waves of immigrants occurred before, during and in the 100 years after the American Revolutionary War, it is unlikely that most of Scots or Scots-Irish ancestry had their line come through Ellis Island, although more likely that those who did have actual records of those (relatively recent) immigrations, compared to those of us whose families came in the preceding waves before (1635 in my case), as complete records either were never kept in those earlier days, or, in the case of thosee who ended up in Confederate states during the Civil War, were destroyed as a result of that war and lost to history forever. But most Scots were already here long before Ellis Island ever opened or closed its doors. They just either haven't, can't trace their ancestry that many generations back to their original immigrant ancestors, or aren't particularly interested in doing so.

One man's opinion.

We now return you to your regular programming. Sorry for the temporary threadjack.

jeff

Thanks, Jeff, that's a superb explanation. We are not taught that much detail, though we do get a fairly fine overview of American history. That's not unlike the absence of Scots' history in your own curriculum, I suppose. In just two paragraphs you cleared up many misconceptions about Ellis Island.

Rex

[davidlpope]

Thanks, Jeff, that's a superb explanation. We are not taught that much detail, though we do get a fairly fine overview of American history. That's not unlike the absence of Scots' history in your own curriculum, I suppose. In just two paragraphs you cleared up many misconceptions about Ellis Island.

Rex

Rex,

I think Jeff's explanation concerning your misconception is a big part of what makes modern "Scottish-American identity" such an intriguing sociological occurrence. Although some here at XMarks are only a few generations removed from Scots born in Scotland, most of us in the Southeastern United States who can trace Scottish descent must do so back over hundreds of years to reach a native born Scot. In my own case, I have yet to identify any ancestors who emigrated to America later than the American Revolution.

This is a direct effect of how early the Highland and Ulster Scots settled in this country. Although most of these groups were subsumed into a larger "frontier culture" there were some notable exceptions. For example, there were thriving Highland settlements in parts of North Carolina well into the nineteenth century (and even accounts of slaves owned by these Scots who spoke the Gaelic, because English was not used within the community as the primary language).

Taking all that into effect, most expressions of "Scottish-Americanism" in this part of the country are, by necessity, newly learned or invented (e.g. John MacWhatever "discovers" that MacWhatever is a Scottish name and buys a kilt in the MacWhatever tartan; American churches decide to celebrate a "Kirking of the Tartan", etc.). There are very few examples of direct, unbroken traditions dating from these immigrant Scots to their distant descendants. In cases where there are traditions (i.e. certain Appalachian fiddle tunes, the practice of first-footing, Scotch Fairs) they are probably not purely Scottish, having been mixed with the other cultural traditions which were present during the time that these practices evolved. Perhaps that's why we Americans seem to get things mixed up when we decide to participate in your culture...


Cordially,

David

[creagdhubh]

see post #11 for the answer

Cheers.

[creagdhubh]

Answered earlier in the thread somewhere, Kyle. In the US, just as in Scotland, the spelling is this way and that way and all are correct. It is the pronunciation of the name Maclean that's a chuckle for Scots.

Understood. Same goes for the Macphersons, and I would argue for any Highland clan, or Scottish family- ultimately, the spelling really doesn't matter...like you said, it is the pronunciation. Hope all is well in your world...cheers mate!

Slainte,

[creagdhubh]

Rex,

I think Jeff's explanation concerning your misconception is a big part of what makes modern "Scottish-American identity" such an intriguing sociological occurrence. Although some here at XMarks are only a few generations removed from Scots born in Scotland, most of us in the Southeastern United States who can trace Scottish descent must do so back over hundreds of years to reach a native born Scot. In my own case, I have yet to identify any ancestors who emigrated to America later than the American Revolution.

This is a direct effect of how early the Highland and Ulster Scots settled in this country. Although most of these groups were subsumed into a larger "frontier culture" there were some notable exceptions. For example, there were thriving Highland settlements in parts of North Carolina well into the nineteenth century (and even accounts of slaves owned by these Scots who spoke the Gaelic, because English was not used within the community as the primary language).

Taking all that into effect, most expressions of "Scottish-Americanism" in this part of the country are, by necessity, newly learned or invented (e.g. John MacWhatever "discovers" that MacWhatever is a Scottish name and buys a kilt in the MacWhatever tartan; American churches decide to celebrate a "Kirking of the Tartan", etc.). There are very few examples of direct, unbroken traditions dating from these immigrant Scots to their distant descendants. In cases where there are traditions (i.e. certain Appalachian fiddle tunes, the practice of first-footing, Scotch Fairs) they are probably not purely Scottish, having been mixed with the other cultural traditions which were present during the time that these practices evolved. Perhaps that's why we Americans seem to get things mixed up when we decide to participate in your culture...


Cordially,

David

Well said David!

Cheers mate,