Bespeaking of Bespoke - what is your experience?

[Tartan Tess]

To me...bespoke means you like to have a certain someone make your garments and they know all about your body type and it's quirks. and if you had things made for you often, it's great.
The first thing that comes to mind for me is Riverkilt and Kathy Lare.
He knows she will deliver the best goods and she knows what he is looking for in a kilt. They both get their money's/times worth.

[Riverkilt]

Aye, not only has Kathy Lare made all my hand sewn kilts - with #12 in her line up - a Dutch Friendship tartan. She's also arranged for my two made-to-measure argyle jackets and one Prince Charlie sewn up by Lochcarron. Can't beat having a skilled kiltmaker.

Don't forget all my bazillion USA Kilts were also made to measure, as were my Freedom Kilts, and my leather RKilts.

I really really really like dealing direct with my kiltmakers and not having to trust that word will somehow get through the middleman to an unknown kiltmaker. Seems to save money too.

Only thing I've seen as a problem is that no matter how close I follow measureing directions the first kilt from a new kiltmaker always seems a bit off. Perhaps due to my optimism. But once that first kilt is in then its easy to adjust the size of the next kilt and then you're set.

By far prefer my made-to-measure kilts to off-the-rack kilts.

[piperdbh]

All three of my kilts were made by Matt Newsome, which says enough in itself. I do not have any "off the rack" kilts, so I can't compare them, but I can say the my Newsomes fit me perfectly.

I have long fingers and wide palms, and it's hard to find gloves that fit, so, since I'm a knitter, last year I made myself several pairs of felted gloves, and formed them to fit my hands exactly. Yes, they fit like a glove, they don't slide off, they're not too tight, and they keep my hands warm. In this instance, bespoke was the way to go.

A_Hay! (Tom) made a sporran for me a couple of years ago, with my own design carved into the flap. I'd call this sporran "made to measure", because it's pretty much the same body style as several of his other sporrans, but the flap is customized to my wishes. That sporran is a work of art which I wear very proudly, and have received more compliments on it that an "off the rack" sporran would receive. In return for the sporran, I made him a pair of hose, which were MTM in that I used a basic sock pattern and modified it to meet Tom's specs.

VMac3205 (Victoria) made an Inverness cape for me a couple of years ago using a pattern of her own devising, but which she has used for other capes, so, using the current working definitions, would fall into the MTM category. It's a beautiful wrap, which I wore this past weekend to a Christmas concert. I'm much more pleased with it than I would be with an OTR cape.

[azwildcat96]

Surely there is someone with a Hong Kong Tailor story, or maybe a Middle Eastern one- some adventurer who had the good fortune to meet an accommodating tailor in some far flung corner and brought back a real gem- or maybe a real disappointment, I don't know...

OK...Again, I've always thought of it as a made to measure, made to order, or custom made garment, but I grew up in Hong Kong as a kid (age 6 months to16 yerars old). All of my life, my suits were made by a tailor. Fabric was chosen, a general style was selected, and certain features were added. Once measurements were taken, the garment was made. a second fitting then allowed for the fine tuning. I never had a suit that fit poorly, until I grew out of it, as boys will do. They outlasted me everytime!

[Bugbear]

Post deleted.

[Whidbey78]

I won't go into great detail here but...I would buy only bespoke garments except that I have no real need to. I've been fitted for suits, tuxedos and military uniforms many times and the result is always the same for everything worn from the waist up. Buy a 46R and let the cuffs out if possible. If not, buy 46L and alter to fit(a little extra tailoring in the middle so it follows the same line around the torso as the 46R). Other than needing a little tweaking in the sleeves due to long arms, off the rack stuff fits me as well as a tailored item. The one time I bought a bespoke jacket it fit so much like the off the rack one that the tailor told me to never waste my money unless I lose or gain a lot of weight.

So unless I'm after something completely unique I'm better off in terms of money, time and convenience to buy a jacket or shirt and tweak it a little.

Just lucky I guess.

As far as my kilts go, I have several off the rack and several made to measure(made to measurements I sent to the kiltmaker that is--never been measured by the kiltmaker in person) and I will never buy another kilt off the rack unless the price is too good to pass up and I need another kilt that I can beat up hiking, fishing, camping, etc. Even then, I'd be more inclined to make another x-kilt for that now.

[Scotland Forever]

Time for a new Traditional Thread. I was wondering about bespoke experiences had by Forum members.

Unless I am mistaken, tailored clothing comes in three types:
Off the rack, i.e., made to a "standard" pattern and size,
Made to Measure, i.e., made to a standard pattern, but sized to fit the person ordering, and
Bespoke, made to a pattern designed specifically for the wearer, to his specifications and measurements

Some time ago, I recall reading posts which described a visit to a tailor, but the result was a garment made to the tailor's usual style, not necessarily that chosen by the wearer. My thought is to hear (or read) more about Members' stories of custom (highland) garments, either from traditional tailors, highland and otherwise, or from helpful and talented relatives and others, including garments you have made yourselves.

I am interested in three things in particular:

1) your reasons for choosing the level of custom work you did

I chose to purchase a Regulation Doublet from MacKenzie Frain. My reason for chosing 'Made to Measure' was a mix of wanting a custom garment and not wanting to pay full 'Bespoke' price. It also came down to the fact that the 'MtM' RD @ MF was cheaper than 'off the peg' sizes at the others I'd considered. I ended up buying the whole outfit from MF as well to save on time, money and shipping.

2) your method of selecting the tailor/maker, and

The method I used was a long one. I started with thinking of buying everything from my previous kiltmaker (Geoffrey Tailor). I then decided to look at other quality kiltmakers as mentioned on this board as well as other Internet research. As previously mentioned, I then came across the fact that most kiltmakers 'off the peg' version of the Regulation Doublet was quite pricey vs their prices for the PC.

Since I was buying this outfit for my wedding, and wanted something special, I chose MacKenzie Frain as the maker for my RD. Reading a review of one purchased by XMS'er MacMillan of Rathdown sealed the deal. Now, I was on the hunt for a kiltmaker for my Black Stewart. I narrowed it down to:

- Geoffrey Tailor - My first kilt as an adult was made by GT, so I felt comfortable with their work.
- MacKenzie Frain - Considered the package deal, and the saving on time, money & shipping.
- Barbara from XMS - No reply to my query asking to have my Kilt made by her (my *only* choice outside Scotland).
- Kinloch Anderson - A bit pricey, so decided not to go with them.
- Manley Richardson (via Scotweb) - Liked the custom touches that are offered, but again a wee bit pricey.
- Hector Russell - I can't remember why I didn't go with them now. That was back in Jan-Feb timeframe.
- Slanj Kilts - Almost went with the 'kiltmaker to the stars'. I'll probably get another made by them.

3) any comparison you might make between the finished garment and similar garments made in other ways ( i.e., your MTM doublet vs Off the Rack, or your bespoke kilt vs a MTM one, or your home built jacket compared to your grandfather's bespoke, etc. even a comparison between two bespoke tailors)

Let's talk about quality of fabric, durability, practicality, as well as distinction and style. And by all means, if fit is an issue, let's talk about that, too.

I have in mind coats, jackets, doublets, tunics, waistcoats, and kilts, but I expect we could learn about any sewn garments in this discussion.

Thanking you in advance, I am
yr hmbl &c...
M'LL

I'd like to mention that it turns out that 'MacKenzie Frain' outsources their kiltmaking to 'House of Tartan' or they are in fact the same company - I was never able to figure this out one way or the other myself. My original GT kilt was made with the measurements by Hugh @ one of the Southern Scottish Games that GT frequents - fit like a glove in length and waist size. This included the widening of my mid section over the years until I am at the first hole on the belts. It's held up really well over the last 11 years. The pleats have held their edge, I think I've had it dry cleaned twice in that time and there doesn't appear to be any fading or other issues. The Prince Charlie Jacket/Waistcoat has also held up over the years. It was 'off the peg' and I ended up switching it out for the next size up when I went to Scotland a short time later.

The MF/HoT kilt is very nice, but I would not order from them again. I sent MF a ton of measurements for the RD jacket/waistcoat and it fits perfectly. The kilt however not so much; the length is spot on, but the waist measurement is wayyyyyy off. I have the belts on the *last* hole, and it barely sits on me. This after I made sure to ask that the measurement I gave them to fit in the middle of the belts as to allow for weight gain/loss. As it is now, if I lose anything from my mid section, I won't be able to wear the damn thing. As a result of this mistake on their part, the front apron is also too far on the right side and my kilt pin is a good two inches over from where it should reside.

It's very hard to make an educated purchase with something like this, since usually when you buy a kilt and it turns out wrong, you're stuck with the damn thing.

[BoldHighlander]

All three of my kilts were made by Matt Newsome, which says enough in itself. I do not have any "off the rack" kilts, so I can't compare them, but I can say the my Newsomes fit me perfectly.

A_Hay! (Tom) made a sporran for me a couple of years ago, with my own design carved into the flap. I'd call this sporran "made to measure", because it's pretty much the same body style as several of his other sporrans, but the flap is customized to my wishes. That sporran is a work of art which I wear very proudly, and have received more compliments on it that an "off the rack" sporran would receive.

Like yourself, I have/had two kilts made to measure by Matt Newsome for me (one I sold, but that had nothing to do with the quality/craftsmanship of Matt's work). I do still have an off the rack kilt that I no longer wear. It served its purpose but, compared to Matt's handiwork, even if it still fit I couldn't possibly go back to wearing it, I'm spoiled by the quality of my Newsome box pleat(s).

I also have a bespoke sporran made by Artificer (Scott) and accompanying leathers (sporran strap & waist belt). It's beautiful and, unless I acquired an antique sporran, I just can't see myself now ever buying anything less than a custom made item.

As yet I don't own any bespoke or made to measure kilt jackets or waistcoats, but as money allows those are on my must have list. However, next on my list (again, as $$ allows) is a bespoke balmoral that I have been in contact with Redshank (Chris) about earlier this year.

[figheadair]

The differences between off-the-peg, make-to-measure and bespoke have been well discussed. What I would say is that some of the bespoke costs quoted seem rather high. One way to lower the cost is to source your cloth first and then use a tailor that you can trust.

I have a bespoke Harris Tweed jacket, material purchased from Marion Campbell when she was still on the go; and also a fantastic Tweed suit in cloth that I designed for 51 (Scottish) Brigade. Total cost for the latter = £380 all up.

The other great advantage, of bespoke is that one can send one's tailor cloth and just ask for something similar and it will fit. I ordered military trews when stationed in Belfast and they were perfect without the need for a fitting.

The key - find a good tailor. I can recommend one in Kelso if anyone's interested.

[fortcollinsjerry]

Surely there is someone with a Hong Kong Tailor story, or maybe a Middle Eastern one- some adventurer who had the good fortune to meet an accommodating tailor in some far flung corner and brought back a real gem- or maybe a real disappointment, I don't know...

Many years ago I had a Great HongKong experience. I walked into the shop, got up on a box and the salesman went at me with a tape while an assistant wrote every thing down. Two day's later I went back for a fit and adjust, and the next day the suit was delivered to my hotel. The gentleman who delivered it waited till I had put it on to make sure the fit was corect. It was beautiful. Cost was about $50. That was in 1958.