Interesting Irish kilt article

[DireStraitsFan]

I'm not very learned in kilt lore, but I know that a lot of you are. I stumbled across this article (couldn't even tell you how) and I thought it was very interesting, and maybe a little bit suspect. Nevertheless, I thought I'd bring it here to share with the ranks of kiltophiles to see what you all have to say about it. It's a short article, but worth the read, I think.

Thanks in advance, and happy new year to all of my fellow kilties.

http://www.irishthunder.org/irish_kilt.htm

A few excerpts:

"The evidence is now conclusive that every Irish clan family had its own distinctive kilt colour. Unlike the Scots with their different coloured family tartans, Irish families had a preference for one-colour kilts, and I have collected the authentic colours of 200 Irish clan family kilts and coats of arms."

"Up to and including the Norman invasion, the Irish, like the rest of Europe, wore a tunic stretching from the shoulders to the knees, made out of either leather, wool, linen or silk."

"With the turmoil caused by the Elizabethan wars in Ireland, the supply of linen dropped and the Irish, like the Scots, were forced to use the lower part of the tunic, that is from the waist to the knees, the upper part being abandoned for lack of material. The lower part became the forerunner of today’s kilt."

Hit the link above to read the whole article and let me know what you think!

Thanks again.

[Whidbey78]

I'm not sure what to think. This is the first I've heard of Irish Clan colors. I'm by no means a history or cultural expert though. I don't know enough about the topic to argue in support of or against the idea, but I will say that I would like to know where the author's information came from so I could investigate it for myself.

I'm usually suspicious of someone claiming they have found "proof" of something without saying where such proof is from. Of course, the fact that sources were not cited does not mean that sources don't exist. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence and all that.

[macwilkin]

I'm not sure what to think. This is the first I've heard of Irish Clan colors. I'm by no means a history or cultural expert though. I don't know enough about the topic to argue in support of or against the idea, but I will say that I would like to know where the author's information came from so I could investigate it for myself.

I'm usually suspicious of someone claiming they have found "proof" of something without saying where such proof is from. Of course, the fact that sources were not cited does not mean that sources don't exist. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence and all that.

Yeah...I'd like to see some try to use the whole "the absence of evidence" line on a MA or PhD committee.

T.

[artificer]

He's awfully short on references (ie, there aren't any).
I've always understood that Irish families had a 'colour', if you will, and that it would have been worn as an identifier on the field, but NOT as a kilt.

Also suspect is the thought of silk being at all prevalent before the Norman invasion.

I'd trust Matt's article over this one in a minute.

[Whidbey78]

Yeah...I'd like to see some try to use the whole "the absence of evidence" line on a MA or PhD committee.

T.

I haven't seen that, but I have seen it used to support some wild ideas on an essay or two.

Cajunscot, you're one of our resident history scholars. Have you ever heard of clan colors in Ireland? On kilts? Silk? Or is this to be taken with the same grain of salt as the papers at the grocery that warn of impending alien invasion? As I said before, it's outside my realm.

[Zardoz]

That article pops up from time to time, It's facts are mostly made up.

[macwilkin]

I haven't seen that, but I have seen it used to support some wild ideas on an essay or two.

Cajunscot, you're one of our resident history scholars. Have you ever heard of clan colors in Ireland? On kilts? Silk? Or is this to be taken with the same grain of salt as the papers at the grocery that warn of impending alien invasion? As I said before, it's outside my realm.

I wouldn't take much stock in this particular article...as Zardoz mentioned, there are quite a few questions regarding the sources of the author. There are better sources out there.

T.

[DireStraitsFan]

Of course, the fact that sources were not cited does not mean that sources don't exist. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence and all that.

Quite right, but the lack of any kind of work's cited is pretty damning, and probably the reason I felt suspicious. Good call.

[DireStraitsFan]

It makes for interesting speculation. I always thought that the Irish kilt was a modern invention. I'd have a vested interest in this article if it were true, as my Irish roots are longer than my Scottish.

Nevertheless, I've always assumed, considering my surname is English, that true Scots were being incredibly generous in lending their national dress to mongrels like myself.

[MacSpadger]

There's some very well researched posts on Irish kilts that I have read on this forum. External articles, with references, can be found elsewhere.
This is an interesting example as is this one and also this one here.

Some authors claim that the kilt was adopted as late as 1916, but we have very clear evidence of it being worn in Ireland earlier in the 20th Century. However, there's a scarcity of evidence regarding the pre 1900's, to put it diplomatically.

If I was to be less diplomatic, I'd say the fellow's article reads like he was making it up as he went along.