Help CMcG With Formality?

[AKScott]

Would hose #2 and flashes #3 be a disaster on outfit #1?

I do see the slanted kilt pin as suboptimal.

My n00bness is showing I am sure; I must have missed something in the reading assignment since MacMillan of Rathdown didn't mention hose #2 with outfit #1.

Maybe I did see "dark or argyle" hose for formal wear. Dang it.

[GG]

Being a non-Scot, I’m not very much into formal highland wear. However, let me take it from the ”ordinary men’s wear” angle, and be assured I have no intention to be rude. But you asked and here is my opinion:

ad #1) the spencer jacket fulfills black tie functions. Accordingly your black bow tie and the shirt are correct items. Also the sporran is perfectly suited for this outfit.
You might need a better kilt pin than the safety pin. That, however, is a minor thing. But have it sit vertical.

ad #2) the Braemer jacket and a shirt/tie combination that has connotations to white tie functions do, to my opinion, not go well together.

ad #3) you combine a “black tie” jacket with “white tie” items. To me that is an absolutely no-go. The sporran is way over dressed.

So that leaves me with #1, which, like I said, is about 100% fine.

Greg

www.dress2kilt.eu
http://blog.dress2kilt.eu

[EagleJCS]

I agree with the others here. Look #1, with the hose from #3, although the hose pictured will also work, though it makes that look a bit dark overall.

Please do straighten the kilt pin. Perhaps run it right along the blue/green border, to the right (left as you're looking at it) of the white stripe, about a finger's length from the bottom.

(GG, that appears to be a blanket pin, which I have read here is considered more "correct" than some of the more commercial kilt pins - the sword form or stone-encrusted pins - being marketed today.)

I also agree that the white tie in pic #3 appears to be a bit wide for your face, at least from that angle.

[davidlpope]

Unless the wedding invitation specifies "white tie" (and I can't imagine that it would), I'd suggest:

Douglas Kilt
Argyle Hose w/ red flashes
White fold-down collar shirt
Black "Braemar" jacketn (I'm just not a big fan of these "Eton" style jackets)
Black 3 button waistcoat
Black bowtie
Hair Sporran
Dress Sgian Dubh

Best of Luck!

[CMcG]

Wow, thanks for all the great replies!

There are a few things that we seem to have consensus on but a few others that require further discussion...

*** with one suggestion that might be disagreed with----straighten up the kilt pin.

Done. I'll rack that one up to a failed experiment

the first thing I thought was that a mix of outfit 1 and outfit 3 would be great. I'd say everything from the first outfit with the exception of the sporran and hose, for those I might use the tartan hose and horsehair sporran from outfit 3.

By the way this is what I'll most likely be wearing to the Burns Night on the 22nd


I hope this helps. See you on the 22nd.

Looking good, as always McMurdo. That does help and you will most likely see me in outfit #1 with argyle hose and horsehair sporran on the 22nd.

Some people still seem to like the simplicity of outfit #1 as it is, and that gives me a variation for the McLaughlin College Burns Night on the 25th.

I'd go with the #1 look, but augment it with the tartan hose. All three looks are good (I'd be a little shy about the waistcoat in #2, but I like the stock tie a whole lot), and and I am especially pleased to see a dirk belt properly worn over the waistcoat (which, btw is fantastic).

Three great, and highly indivudualistic looks. Well done!

Thanks MoR, that means a lot. I'm also a fan of the stock tie, so could you recommend how to better incorporate it?

I do have a black, higher necked waistcoat... the tartan vest was just to jazz up the simplicity of the solid kilt.

Would you consider tying your white tie so that the horizontal measurement is shorter? Do you know what I mean? Call me crazy, but I think it looks smarter when the proportion is different- not so long across. I expect you can achieve the look I am looking for by shortening the neckband and tying it again. See how that looks to you.


I really like the sporran in #3. Have you tried the dirk with the tartan waistcoat?

I will definitely try tying the white tie with a shorter horizontal spread by adjusting the neckband.

The dirk has not been tried with the MacQuarrie tartan waistcoat. What do you recommend? I've also got a matching kilt in that tartan...

That said, I rather agree with Maclowlife that the white tie is a bit, not too horizontal, but too, how shall I say, too "put together." A bow tie, IMHO, should be a bit loose, a bit askew.
<snip>

I actually take that as a compliment! I'm new to self-tie bow ties and thought it looked really sloppy!!! When I try MacLl's shortening suggestion, I'll attempt to get the knot to hold a bit more akimbo.

Being a non-Scot, I’m not very much into formal highland wear. However, let me take it from the ”ordinary men’s wear” angle, and be assured I have no intention to be rude. But you asked and here is my opinion:

ad #1) the spencer jacket fulfills black tie functions. Accordingly your black bow tie and the shirt are correct items. Also the sporran is perfectly suited for this outfit.
You might need a better kilt pin than the safety pin. That, however, is a minor thing. But have it sit vertical.

ad #2) the Braemer jacket and a shirt/tie combination that has connotations to white tie functions do, to my opinion, not go well together.

ad #3) you combine a “black tie” jacket with “white tie” items. To me that is an absolutely no-go. The sporran is way over dressed.

So that leaves me with #1, which, like I said, is about 100% fine.

Greg

www.dress2kilt.eu
http://blog.dress2kilt.eu

Thanks Greg, you raise some good points for discussion. Perhaps I have displayed my persistent ignorance of levels of formality here...

I thought that it was acceptable to elevate a formal jacket like a Spencer (or Prince Charlie, Mess jacket, or Brian Boru etc) with the use of white tie, white waistcoat, and fancier accessories?

And similarly that it was acceptable to formalize a dress jacket like a black barathea Braemar (or Argyll, Crail)?

At least for grad students who want to dress up but can't afford to shop at the same tailor as HRH the Duke of Rothesay?

Re: your comment about the kilt pin, here is a close-up. The pin (and the horsehair sporran) were worn by my father during his days in the Edmonton Boys Pipe Band.

[azwildcat96]

I'm guessing that the above picture of the kilt pin is to show the detail, and not how you normally wear it. If it were to come unclasped, it would fall right out. To prevent this, turn it over.

[CMcG]

I'm guessing that the above picture of the kilt pin is to show the detail, and not how you normally wear it. If it were to come unclasped, it would fall right out. To prevent this, turn it over.

Yes, the picture is for reference only. I normally wear it upside down, as you say.

[BoldHighlander]

I'm guessing that the above picture of the kilt pin is to show the detail, and not how you normally wear it. If it were to come unclasped, it would fall right out. To prevent this, turn it over.

Yes, the picture is for reference only. I normally wear it upside down, as you say.

I recall that back in 2008 we discussed preventing the loss of kilt pins, and this suggestion was made (it works too!):

"If the pin system would be adequate to hold what he normally makes they should be able to hold a kilt pin. In general there shouldn't be more stress on a kilt pin then in other applications. The one thought I have is the use of a pin "lock." Many people use a rubber band as a back up to the pin. With the clutch pins pass the pins trough the apron of the kilt, through a piece of rubber band and then put the clutch in place. Even if the clutch is lost the rubber band will hold the pin in place.

The same thing is done for the safety pin style pin. Pass the top of the pin through the apron, then through a piece of rubber band back through the rubber band, out through the kilt at the bottom and close the clasp."

[azwildcat96]

Sound advise! This would allow a better view of the stone too boot!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

WOW! You've got both a kilt and a waistcoat in MacQuarrie tartan? If it was me I'd be saving like mad (or out robbing a bank) to have a dress Argyll jacket done up in the same tartan... ahhhh, I can see it now... silk gauntlet cuffs, velvet collar, cut steel buttons....

Meantime, I think the slightly higher-cut black waistcoat would be my choice, with a nice silver and amethyst brooch to keep the stock in place. Of course, with that same waistcoat you could also go for a full lace jabot, something that would definitely add to the dressy look.