Derrick's The Image of Irelande (1581) & Irish Clothing

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 15th January 11, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

Does anyone have access to Audrey Henshall's article?

Peter,

You do. :-)
Check your email.

**figheadair** · 15th January 11, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

Peter,

You do. :-)
Check your email.

Just arrived. thanks Matt.

**figheadair** · 15th January 11, 06:51 AM

Having had a re-read of the Dungiven paper I can't find anything in it that suggests, or would indicate, that the tartan was woven in Ireland as opposed to Scotland.

The way in which the cloth was cut and the trews constructed indicates that they were professionally made as opposed to being done at home. The similarity with the Scottish Dava Moor trews may well demonstrate a common construction style and/or supplier.

**artificer** · 15th January 11, 07:04 AM

Terry,
great stuff. I look forward to reading more as this conversation develops.

**MrShoe** · 15th January 11, 09:10 AM

Matt,

Is your opinion that the Dungiven Costume was made in Scotland, by a Scot for a Scot with Scottish made materials?

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 15th January 11, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by MrShoe

Matt,

Is your opinion that the Dungiven Costume was made in Scotland, by a Scot for a Scot with Scottish made materials?

While it is possible that the trews were made in Scotland for a Scot, it is just as possible that they were made in Scotland for an Irish man.

Once, while discussing ancient Irish dress with Fergus Gillespie, former Chief Herald of Ireland, he pointed out that the O'Neill had ordered suits of clothes (ie: trews) from Glasgow, and that the letter in O'Neill's hand was to be found in the manuscripts section of the National Library.

While we'll never know for certain, the likelihood is that the tartan was woven in Scotland, and that the trews were made in Scotland. How they came to be in Ireland is anybody's guess, but it's fun to conjecture that they may have originally belonged to the O'Niell, himself.

**muirkirkca** · 15th January 11, 09:48 AM

Great set of images. Shows that the common foot solder likely wore tunic like garments from the time of the Roman invasion and perhaps beyond. Would be reasonable that leggings ( trews )would have been added at the interest of the wearer.

**Paul Henry** · 15th January 11, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by MrShoe

Matt,

Is your opinion that the Dungiven Costume was made in Scotland, by a Scot for a Scot with Scottish made materials?

I'm not sure how you think Matt would be able to answer those questions, there are just too many imponderables.

I've just read the journal article as well, very interesting to see that some of the weaving was a herringbone pattern as well- just to follow on from some of Peter's articles!

**Nick the DSM** · 15th January 11, 11:13 AM

Fascinating images!

Cool to a Durer piece in there as well.

**BoldHighlander** · 15th January 11, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by rtc872

Also, thanks boldhighlander you put in a lot of work posting all that.

Your very welcome!

Since I had a touch of some stomach "bug" the last couple days, it took me a wee bit longer to put together than planned...

Originally Posted by artificer

Terry,
great stuff. I look forward to reading more as this conversation develops.

You & me both, Scott! :mrgreen:

I would also love to see this "Dungiven paper" that Matt & Peter allude too (hint, hint)...

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

While it is possible that the trews were made in Scotland for a Scot, it is just as possible that they were made in Scotland for an Irish man......

While we'll never know for certain, the likelihood is that the tartan was woven in Scotland, and that the trews were made in Scotland. How they came to be in Ireland is anybody's guess, but it's fun to conjecture that they may have originally belonged to the O'Niell, himself.

I've always felt that these trews/outfit belonged to an Ulster-Scot, someone from the emigrant Scots/Galloglass community....however this is just a feeling and nothing more. Like Scott (MoR), I think we'll never know for certain. And also, like Scott, I think it's fun to conjecture

Originally Posted by xman

This reminds me of a Shakespeare quote from Macbeth which is close to my heart.

"The mercilesse Macdonwald
(Worthie to be a Rebell, for to that
The multiplying Villanies of Nature
Doe swarme vpon him) from the Westerne Isles
Of Kerns and Gallowglasses is supply'd ; "

Nice! Thanks for sharing that, 'X'!

I hope if anyone else has Tudor period illustrations of Irish /Galloglass dress, that they would consider adding them to this thread.