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  1. #11
    MacBean is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
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    OK, it looks like an OLD tartan. There are several listed in Matt's article http://www.scottishtartans.org/oldtartans.html

    but I was wondering if it was Culloden tartan itself. I'd have thought only that one would elicit a response from Matt like he gave. The colors and sett don't match what we have on the web at all, but wild guesses are allowed I hope.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    Yellow? X I think your monitor needs adjusting.
    I've always believed tennis balls are yellow and everybody insists they're green. Probably not my monitor. Probably my brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    Loop, what loop?
    There's something sewn into the top left corner of the last picture.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    I've always believed tennis balls are yellow and everybody insists they're green. Probably not my monitor. Probably my brain.


    There's something sewn into the top left corner of the last picture.
    And that "loop" is embroidered initials. it appears to be I C or L C perhaps.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacBean View Post
    OK, it looks like an OLD tartan. There are several listed in Matt's article http://www.scottishtartans.org/oldtartans.html

    but I was wondering if it was Culloden tartan itself. I'd have thought only that one would elicit a response from Matt like he gave. The colors and sett don't match what we have on the web at all, but wild guesses are allowed I hope.
    If you read my article on the Culloden tartan you'll see a picture of the original there. This is a quite different sett.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hothir Ethelnor View Post
    And that "loop" is embroidered initials. it appears to be I C or L C perhaps.
    It's I C but we have no idea to whom that referred.

  6. #16
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    It has similarities to the Fraser and Robertson tartans. It's very close to the Grant of Edinchat tartan except for the proportion of red to blue & green. The closest match appears to be a formerly unnamed tartan from Glen Buchet (Glenbuchat?) ca. 1750. The specimen is hard tartan, 28 x 48 inches. The tartan was adopted by the Countess of Mar and recorded in the Lyon Court Book in 1992, being given the name "Red Mar".

    I didn't know you could place restrictions on an old tartan you didn't design or commission.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morris at Heathfield View Post
    The closest match appears to be a formerly unnamed tartan from Glen Buchet (Glenbuchat?) ca. 1750. The specimen is hard tartan, 28 x 48 inches. The tartan was adopted by the Countess of Mar and recorded in the Lyon Court Book in 1992, being given the name "Red Mar".
    Good Eyes! These colors remind me of the tartan worn by the 78th Fraser Highlander reenactors- the green is lime, the blue navy, and the red orange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morris at Heathfield View Post
    I didn't know you could place restrictions on an old tartan you didn't design or commission.
    I'm not sure what you mean by placing restrictions, but it has been common practice in the past for "Chiefs of the Name" to adopt existing tartans as their own. Many of the WOB trade setts were adopted by clans (Matt reminded me of the interesting story of the MacPherson tartan this past weekend) when it became fashionable for each clan to have a tartan. This practice still continues: Duncan Paisley of Westerlea adopted the existing Paisley district tartan for his followers when he was confirmed as chief of the name; Mark Harden of Cowdenknowes adopted WOB unnamed tartan #1 as the "Harden" tartan a few years ago when he assumed the barony.

    David

  8. #18
    M. A. C. Newsome is offline
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    Another example is the Moncrieff chief who adopted an old MacLachlan sett (with the permission of the MacLachlan chief if I recall correctly).

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morris at Heathfield View Post
    It has similarities to the Fraser and Robertson tartans. It's very close to the Grant of Edinchat tartan except for the proportion of red to blue & green. The closest match appears to be a formerly unnamed tartan from Glen Buchet (Glenbuchat?) ca. 1750. The specimen is hard tartan, 28 x 48 inches. The tartan was adopted by the Countess of Mar and recorded in the Lyon Court Book in 1992, being given the name "Red Mar".

    I didn't know you could place restrictions on an old tartan you didn't design or commission.
    Well found. It is the original piece from Glenbuchat. Now, what the cloth tell you?

  10. #20
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    According to the tartan notes, the tartan is restricted and may only be worn by those of the name Mar and those granted permission to wear it by the Countess of Mar. That's different from a clan chief adopting an existing tartan to represent his clan while leaving its status otherwise unchanged. Members of the Royal Regiment of Scotland don't need the Duke of Argyll's permission to wear their tartan. Of course, I guess you could say the Red Mar tartan was an "orphan" until the Countess of Mar adopted it, but I don't see how the Countess of Mar can claim rights akin to copyright on the pattern, when it was created over 250 years ago by an unknown weaver.

    Regarding the cloth, it seems rather ordinary to me. The colors resemble other 18th-century tartans. I see folds and a few flaws, the aforementioned initials, and a hem on the top (according to the orientation of the pictures) sewn with red thread. On the right is a rather narrow red herringbone selvage. I'm guessing the cloth has been cut on the right side. If the right side was also a selvage, that would be unusual, as there is no herringbone pattern, and the weft pattern isn't centered. However, the dimensions given in the tartan notes would suggest that this was just one half of a plaid. Or perhaps a philabeg, as it isn't attached to the other half.

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