What should we have to accept when buying a custom made kilt?

[GG]

Buying a kilt is a serious business for most of us here, I think. At least, I have in this, as well as in other forums, seen quite many members asking for advice about where to buy their kilt. And that’s what a forum is for, of course.

And no wonder. Whatever money we spend we like to have the best kilt possible delivered. Add to that that a kilt is often custom made, which is reflected in price as well as in delivery time.

And what would be more frustrating than after months of waiting to receive a kilt which is far from being satisfactory.

As consumers we know that some products are defective and therefore have to be replaced or repaired. We also know that in production they operate with tolerances and, that customers must be prepared to accept products deviating from a norm, settled by the company. So it must also be when we are talking kilts.

Looked upon from a manufacturer’s chair there are easy customers, being satisfied with almost whatever and there are difficult customers, who are never to satisfy and who shall always complain. Some kilt buyers belong to that category, of course.

Luckily, in most buying situations the offered quality equals the expected quality.

A recent example from this forum worries me a little bit, however. But perhaps I’m just one of these never-to-satisfy customers? At least, most of you seemed to me more positive than was I. Could it be that we just had a different focus?

Please look at the picture, which I have obtained permission to use and change my way.



My question to you as a consumer, a kilt buyer:

Should a custom made kilt looking like this be acceptable to you?

My questions to you as a kilt maker:

Supposing I ordered my next kilt from you,

1) How likely is it that you should deliver me a kilt looking like that?

2) If likely, do you think it to be within your tolerances, i.e. something with which I should have to live?

3) If not within your own tolerances, should you deliver me a new kilt without charge or should you pay me all my money back?

Barb, Lady Chrystel, Matt, (Nick, only if time permits, otherwise do take care of your family), Rocky, Scott, Steve ET others, what do you say?

I own several kilts from cheap Pakistani to pretty good wool kilts and I have a lot of pictures taken from behind in almost the same angle as this one, but I never saw something like this. Do I need to say, that I shouldn’t want to?

But again, I may just be one of these never-to-satisfy kilt buyers?

[rtc872]

I understand your point. I am not 100% on the origin of that kilt above but if I was paying $500 for a kilt I would not accept that kind of finish.

[GG]

The kilt was made by Tartanweb.

[OC Richard]

I guess I'm lucky, in that every kilt I've purchased has been wonderful.

My first few "real" kilts, dating back to the late 1970s, were all made by the same local woman. It's great to personally know the maker! Sadly she is no longer with us, and I treasure the one kilt I still have that she made for me.

My two latest kilts were made by makers I hadn't ever met. One maker was known by repuation, as I had seen several online photos of nice kilts she had made. My latest kilt was "a shot in the dark" with an Edinburgh maker I knew nothing about. Both kilts are lovely.

That kilt you posted is completely unacceptable. I've never, in 35 years of kiltwearing and kiltwatching, seen such a kilt. How on earth could such a kilt be made, or if made, sold?

[Jock Scot]

I suppose this is the inevitable risk of buying from afar via, post, telephone, or, these days, the internet. I personally would not even consider the idea of buying an expensive item without personal first hand contact with my kiltmaker at all stages of construction, from concecption to the final fitting. The fact that many don't surprises me and whilst I quite understand the problem of distance, I am not in the least bit surprised that disappointments occur and it must put severe pressure on the kilt maker who needs his/her product as a living and very public advertisment. Having said that, there is no excuse for sloppy work.

Added to which, there is also the inevitable problem of the customer who may not actually know what to really expect when his kilt actually arrives.Again a perfectly understandable situation for a novice, which in my book almost demands direct personal contact and consultation with the kilt maker.

[GG]

No doubt, Jock, the buying procedure you describe is the optimal one, but you know, when living far from the source it is difficult and compromises like the Internet are necessary.

[Jock Scot]

No doubt, Jock, the buying procedure you describe is the optimal one, but you know, when living far from the source it is difficult and compromises like the Internet are necessary.

I believe I have recognised the problem of distance and the inevitable consequences of that problem.

[RockyR]

My questions to you as a kilt maker:

Supposing I ordered my next kilt from you,

1) How likely is it that you should deliver me a kilt looking like that?

2) If likely, do you think it to be within your tolerances, i.e. something with which I should have to live?

3) If not within your own tolerances, should you deliver me a new kilt without charge or should you pay me all my money back?

Barb, Lady Chrystel, Matt, (Nick, only if time permits, otherwise do take care of your family), Rocky, Scott, Steve ET others, what do you say?

1) Not likely. When you steek the pleats and hand sew the lining, it's easy to make sure the tartan lines match up on the inside. This will keep the pleats perfectly straight and stop any of them from drooping down below the selvedge (like in the photo). That being said, fixing the mistake in this kilt isn't a difficult fix (to my eye without having it in my hands to inspect).

2) Not within Tolerances.

3) I'd much prefer to re-make or fix the kilt without charge (including return shipping charges) as it would have been a product outside normal 'tolerances' and not representative of a product we would consciously put into the marketplace.

As with EVERY industry, there are mistakes that slip through the cracks. AS A CONSUMER, I would first show the pictures to the company and ask for it to be remidied at their cost. If it was remidied, I'd be happy. If not, I'd ask to be made whole (full refund for all expenses, like I had never ordered in the first place). If they didn't honor THAT request, THEN I would warn others of dealing with them.

In too many instances (not pointing any fingers, but just a general statement of life), people are quick to jump the gun and publicly condem a company without giving the company a chance to respond. I find that often the BEST customer service is what happens when something DOES go wrong and the company must fix it.

An example of VERY poor customer service (sorry... it's a bit OT, but I have to rant about this one):

I bought a VERY expensive pool cue (stick) from a company called 'budgetcues.com'. Don't let the name fool you... they carry very nice cues and are the world's largest Meucci dealer. The cue model in question is shown here:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...lliards-63115/

When it came, the inlays looked like they were put in by a novice (very sloppy), the shaft wasn't tapered to spec, the cue was shipped to the wrong address (my home, not business, so it sat outside in freezing cold all day... not good for a cue), it took 2 weeks longer than anticipated, etc. "Customer Service" was virtually NON existent. Not ONCE did they apologize... they just kept saying, "send it back and if we think it's not within Meucci's tolerances, we'll refund the card". I even directly said to them "you didn't even offer an apology for sending out an admittedly sub-par product". To that they simply said "do you want a replacement or a refund?" Amazing.

When they got it back, they did refund the card for the cue, but not for my return shipping which I had also asked. I was told "we don't refund more than the purchase price". To me, this is COMPLETELY unacceptable. It was only a few dollars, but the "whatever... not my problem" kind of attitude of this small company left MUCH to be desired. In my estimation, the product they sent was unacceptable and I should have been refunded the shipping (or they should have sent me a label to return it at their cost).

Many times, the customer is MAINLY looking for an apology and a remedy. When a company refuses to apologize for something they admit is a mistake, it speaks poorly about their customer service.

Sorry... rant over.

Back to the kilt in question... Point is, see if they can fix it. If not, then ask for a refund of all expenses. That's what I'd expect as a customer and that's what we would do as a company.

Many times we get what we pay for. It's only when we DON'T get what we pay for is there reason to complain. If the kilt in question is a $300 or so "Tank", then I might say that the customer got what they paid for. If it was a $500 - $700 "tank", then I'd say they did not get what they paid for.

[denmcdough]

Hi Jock, you're correct to a point....proximity to the kilt maker, for a good fitting, is most desirable. The thread does NOT show one of an improper fit, it shows one of an improper build/construction.

Many Xmembers have had kilts made without a fitting, but still receive a quality product. I have two wonderfully made kilts, one from a well known US kilt maker, and I never had a fitting, but still ended up with a wonderful product.

Just my .02 cents.

[RockyR]

I believe I have recognised the problem of distance and the inevitable consequences of that problem.

I would respectfully disagree... I have made many kilts for customers who I have never met in person. Many send me pictures and I look for fit and hang of the kilt (even if that's not their intent in sending the pic).

It comes down to measuring instructions and construction. One I handle... the construction. If I am not there to do the measuring, then the instructions must be VERY DETAILED. I am most surprised by the lack of instructions some online companies give their customers. Many just have a line drawing of a kilt with one arrow to the waist, one to the hips and one top to bottom (length). I can see in that instance how one could end up with an ill fitting kilt.

However... if the instructions are well written and detailed and the customer follows them to the letter and the kiltmaker makes a quality garment, then the kilt should fit as well or almost as well as if sized in person.