White Hose

[Dall_Piobaire]

I'm not going to apologise for a good discussion, OT or not. Many a conversation in real life has done the same.

T.

Hoozah

[Dall_Piobaire]

I have a friend who used to work at GUCO; I'll have ask her about that. I have always been told (and by the Chief of NPS Black Powder Program, nonetheless), that Yorktown was the only combat scenario on NPS land. If anyone would know about other reeanacments occuring at an NPS site, it would be him.

T.

Todd.

When I was there, the first time and first time only, we did a combat reenactment. I don't remember a woman working at the park than but I can tell you Don Long was head, and Tommy Taylor were both still there. I believe Tommy might still be in Fla, that was where he transferred to though. That was round about 80 or 81

[tripleblessed]

My time in the theater has given me great appreciation for the combining of what you know with what you can do with what you have to work with to spark the imagination of a new generation to carry on the expansion of what is known. Thanks are owed to all like Todd, Dall, Nighthawk, and, of course,
our own Peter MacDonald who work so hard to do this: work, teach, dig out
more, inspire.

Often, the tough part is determining what is actually known and discerning the difference between that and our understanding of it. All too easy to
confuse the two. I'm sure Heinrich Schliemann spent a lot of time in libraries reading reading about how Troy was quasi-crypto history, but he put his feet on the path and dug it out.

We all, like Groucho, appreciate the value of entertainment. Some of us,
however, are more interested in the truth than the illusion of knowledge.
How else will we have a chance of learning whether our ancestors wore
white or off-white or un-dyed hose at least occasionally?

(Back on track!?)

[Dall_Piobaire]

Some really good comments, for an OT convo, I see this as a community of friends, all with similar interests,and that converstions here are just as they would be seated at the table enjoying a pint together.

The greatest thanks really need to go to folks like Todd and those like him on both sides of the pond, who truly struggle against those who seem to not give much of a damn what happens to the preservation of our history. How many historical treasures have been lost in Scotland to housing and industry..

More often than not, where we have come from is taken too lightly, the tremedous sacrifice made by those who got us where we are nears being just a footnote. So many great things were achieved by setting differences aside and uniting for a cause. Can we go forward on the path to which we were set without remembering what has cone before. Too often these days it seems we haved doomed ourselves to reliving mistakes of the past.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'm sure Heinrich Schliemann spent a lot of time in libraries reading reading about how Troy was quasi-crypto history, but he put his feet on the path and dug it out.

There was never any serious doubt in the academic world that Troy had once existed; Schliemann was one of several 19th century archeologists searching for the "lost city" of Troy but, unlike his contemporaries, he was successful. Better examples of "quasi-crypto-histories" would include the books Holy Blood, Holy Grail and Scotland's Forgotten Monarchy, both of which have spawned industries that have taken in the gullible. As far as television is concerned I'd suggest that any program putting forth as fact tales of the Knights Templar sailing to the New World, or John Wilkes Booth having eluded capture and escaping to India definitely fit the "quasi-crypto-history" template.

We all, like Groucho, appreciate the value of entertainment. Some of us, however, are more interested in the truth than the illusion of knowledge.

It's all well and good to say that, but the problem with "quasi-crypto-history" is that people tend to accept it at face value-- ancient astronauts had to have carved those huge designs on the plains high in the Andes, and von Daneken proved it in his book "Chariots of the Gods"-- and to them it becomes "the truth". Crackpot theories abound in virtually every sphere of human endeavor and while they may be accepted as gospel by the tin-foil hat brigade, they send a shudder down the spine of real historians and those people who are truly knowledgeable.

"To know that the tomato is a fruit is knowledge. Not putting it in a fruit salad is wisdom."

"Quasi-crypto-history" is a tomato in a fruit salad, and the worst kind of "illusion of knowledge".

[Nighthawk]

There was never any serious doubt in the academic world that Troy had once existed; Schliemann was one of several 19th century archeologists searching for the "lost city" of Troy but, unlike his contemporaries, he was successful. Better examples of "quasi-crypto-histories" would include the books Holy Blood, Holy Grail and Scotland's Forgotten Monarchy, both of which have spawned industries that have taken in the gullible. As far as television is concerned I'd suggest that any program putting forth as fact tales of the Knights Templar sailing to the New World, or John Wilkes Booth having eluded capture and escaping to India definitely fit the "quasi-crypto-history" template.
It's all well and good to say that, but the problem with "quasi-crypto-history" is that people tend to accept it at face value-- ancient astronauts had to have carved those huge designs on the plains high in the Andes, and von Daneken proved it in his book "Chariots of the Gods"-- and to them it becomes "the truth". Crackpot theories abound in virtually every sphere of human endeavor and while they may be accepted as gospel by the tin-foil hat brigade, they send a shudder down the spine of real historians and those people who are truly knowledgeable.

"To know that the tomato is a fruit is knowledge. Not putting it in a fruit salad is wisdom."

"Quasi-crypto-history" is a tomato in a fruit salad, and the worst kind of "illusion of knowledge".

The one problem with this is that there is evidence to support a lot of these claims- the ancient aliens theory, the Boothe theory... I don't take it at face value by any means, but there's enough there to cast some reasonable doubt...

[Father Bill]

... or UNreasonable doubt.

[tripleblessed]

Flying over Nazca in a small plane, it is clear that the lines were put in place by
means outside our normal experience, but I don't immediately point at aliens.
Can't rule them out, either, but I've seen a lot of stuff difficult to explain that
probably can't be blamed on them. What I found amazing is that on the ground
you can't tell the lines are there. Equally intriguing is the underground aqueduct
that provides water for the village. As you most likely know, it is sometimes more than 30 years between rains, but the gardens grow using water from the mountains miles away. Comes in an underground tunnel straighter than could be dug today using laser guidance. The natives say they've been there about
3,000 years, and they don't know who built it.

To be fair, MoR is correct that many a bozo "proof" has been theorized on less,
but like him I want to see something real before going in one of "those" directions.

[Nighthawk]

Flying over Nazca in a small plane, it is clear that the lines were put in place by
means outside our normal experience, but I don't immediately point at aliens.
Can't rule them out, either, but I've seen a lot of stuff difficult to explain that
probably can't be blamed on them. What I found amazing is that on the ground
you can't tell the lines are there. Equally intriguing is the underground aqueduct
that provides water for the village. As you most likely know, it is sometimes more than 30 years between rains, but the gardens grow using water from the mountains miles away. Comes in an underground tunnel straighter than could be dug today using laser guidance. The natives say they've been there about
3,000 years, and they don't know who built it.

To be fair, MoR is correct that many a bozo "proof" has been theorized on less,
but like him I want to see something real before going in one of "those" directions.

That's my view exactly! I believe that Sherlock Holmes said "Once you eliminate all other possibilities, whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the truth!" Or something along those lines.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The one problem with this is that there is evidence to support a lot of these claims- the ancient aliens theory, the Boothe theory... I don't take it at face value by any means, but there's enough there to cast some reasonable doubt...

Hmm. Reasonable doubt. Okay, here's the "reasonable doubt" on Booth having escaped to India:

1) Booth is shot in the neck in the early hours of April 26, 1865, by Sgt. Boston Corbet.
2) Mortally wounded, and paralyzed from the neck down, Booth is carried to the porch of the Garret family home, approximately 35 yards away.
3) Three hours later, just as dawn is breaking, Booth dies.
4) Booth is identified at the scene by Lt. Col. Everton Conger, who has seen Booth before, and has been actively distributing photos of Booth to the press and to Pinkerton's agents, as well as to others. So Conger knows what Booth looks like.
5) Booth's body is taken aboard the USS Montauk, where it is again identified by more than ten independent witnesses who knew Booth when he was alive.
6) Booth's body is also identified by a tattoo on its left hand (the initials JWB) and by a distinctive scar on the back of its neck.
7) At the autopsy of Booth three vertebrae were removed from the body and preserved (currently on display at the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Washington DC).
7) The Rev. Richard Garrett was an 11 year old boy the night Booth died at his family's home. He had spent nearly two days in Booth's presence, and had seen the corpse before it was loaded into a wagon and removed from the Garrett family farm.
8) In 1921 he published a full account of Booth's death, and stated with an absolute certainty that it was Booth who had been killed by Sgt. Corbet's shot.
9) On February 18, 1869, the embalmed body of Booth was released from Government custody and buried in the family plot at Green Mount Cemetery in Baltimore, Md. Prior to burial the casket was opened and the remains identified by Booth's mother, his brother, and a sister. They were also identified by the Mayor of Baltimore, who had known Booth as a young man.

No one questioned the death of Booth as he was positively identified within minutes of his capture, and repeatedly identified in the days (and indeed, in the years) following his death.

In 1907 Finis Bates wrote a wholly fantastical novel entitled "The Escape and Suicide of John Wilks Booth", in which he claimed Booth went to Texas, married, and eventually took his own life. This book provided the idea for the book and the film "The Lincoln Conspiracy" both simultaneously released in 1977 by Schick-Sun Classics.

In 1977 I was 30 years old and worked briefly for Schick-Sun Classics, and I can state that aside from the facts that (1) the South lost the war & (2) Booth shot Lincoln, everything else in the film was made up by Chuck Sellier (the producer) and the the writers.

In December of 2010 descendants of the Booth family applied to have the vertebrae of John Wilks Booth in the National Museum of Health and Medicine DNA tested to conclusively prove that Booth was dead.

Not that anyone familiar with the events of April 29, 1865 ever doubted for a moment that Booth died that night.

As for the "ancient aliens"... Well-- if a Greek, sitting on the beach, with nothing more than a stick and a piece of string could accurately work out the circumference of the Earth more than 2000 years ago, I don't think we need Mr. Danaken's "quasi-crypto-history" to explain away the ingenuity of early man.

Oh, and the reason Boston Corbet shot John Wilks Booth? Six weeks prior Booth had appeared in Baltimore, playing the lead role in "MacBeth", wearing white socks and a kilt. Outraged at Booth's playing fast and loose with history, Corbet was moved to make the thespian pay at the first opportunity. And pay dearly, he did.