Got in trouble for being kilted at work

[Doc Canary]

Ok. Let's bottom line this discussion.
I can understand the frustration and disappointment towards your employer for not allowing you to wear your kilt to work. Wearing the kilts seems to be an innocent and fun thing to do to brighten the work day.
It is a workplace. The reason you are an employee of the company is because they feel you are capable of doing the job and facilitate the corporate goal. By continuing to push the issue, you are damaging your relationship and value to the company and pushing yourself towards the door. So, do you want this to be a pissing contest that you will loose or continue to work for this company.
We see pictures and hear stories of other members wearing their kilts to work fairly often on this forum. Typically they are in white collar jobs that employ and value them due to their intellectual contribution that tend to be a lot more tolerant and encouraging of self expression or the member is self employed. That sort of tolerance is not as common in blue collar positions that often times boil down to if you possess the skill set and your physical ability to perform the job while not alienating the coustomers. The argument of your not being able to wear your kilt to work is somehow discriminatory towards your heritage is a specious argument at best.
If being able to wear a kilt to work is that important to you, resign your position and find a job that will allow you to do so. Make sure to wear your kilt throughout the application and interview process.

[Failed God]

I am allowed to where a kilt at work. I have had Hr on a higher then store level tell me i am. I just happen to have a store level manager who believes his opinion is more important corporate dress code.

[auld argonian]

Ok. Let's bottom line this discussion.
I can understand the frustration and disappointment towards your employer for not allowing you to wear your kilt to work. Wearing the kilts seems to be an innocent and fun thing to do to brighten the work day.
It is a workplace. The reason you are an employee of the company is because they feel you are capable of doing the job and facilitate the corporate goal. By continuing to push the issue, you are damaging your relationship and value to the company and pushing yourself towards the door. So, do you want this to be a pissing contest that you will loose or continue to work for this company.
We see pictures and hear stories of other members wearing their kilts to work fairly often on this forum. Typically they are in white collar jobs that employ and value them due to their intellectual contribution that tend to be a lot more tolerant and encouraging of self expression or the member is self employed. That sort of tolerance is not as common in blue collar positions that often times boil down to if you possess the skill set and your physical ability to perform the job while not alienating the coustomers. The argument of your not being able to wear your kilt to work is somehow discriminatory towards your heritage is a specious argument at best.
If being able to wear a kilt to work is that important to you, resign your position and find a job that will allow you to do so. Make sure to wear your kilt throughout the application and interview process.

I wouldn't say that it's a specious argument, I think that it's legitimate. I don't like these long, drawn out threads where someone is going on about not being able to wear their kilt to work or a prom or a wedding or whatever and I certainly don't find much value in all of the consequent posts that suggest all kinds of strategies to persuade the company to reconsider their position. But unless ALL variations in dress that reflect ANY ethnicity or religion are prohibited, it's arbitrary and discriminatory. There may be other reasons behind a policy like this or it just might be one supervisor that's singling the employee out. Nothing wrong with the kiltie trying to pursue this in a reasonable and civil manner...don't hand out this "suck it up and deal with it" stuff...it's not any better advice than any of the other suggestions. It's not for any of us to decide what someone else's "bottom line" is.

Best

AA

[Santa Wally]

I am allowed to where a kilt at work. I have had Hr on a higher then store level tell me i am. I just happen to have a store level manager who believes his opinion is more important corporate dress code.

Unfortunately it IS the store level manager that holds the position that has control over whether you continue working there or NOT. As others have said, he could decide to find a non-kilt related issue pertaining to your job performance to get rid of you. You'd have to be constantly aware that your every move is under extra scrutiny. Not a comfortable way to work. Don't kick the sleeping dog.

Just my humble opinion.

[Doc Canary]

The point of my earlier post was to pick your battles. Nothing wrong with living by your principles.
It is easy for other to encourage you to follow through with HR and to stand up to the man. Remember, for you this is serious economic business. For us, it is an interesting and entertaining thread on a blog.

[Danaidh]

Hear, Hear! As arm-chair quarterbacks, it's not us who'll have to pay the price for a hail-mary on your end. It's also true that this is an interesting conversation, and look how many of us have your attention. I'd say we're rooting for you to make the touchdown, but don't want you to get hurt if it doesn't work out. Tread lightly. When I approached my manager about wearing a kilt to work, she got excited and exclaimed her brother makes his own, which gave me the OK, so ya never know.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

A lot of interest generated here!

If the o.p(meaning the origionator of this thread) is tackling this issue on the front of equal opportunity and basic human rights,then i wish him all the best and give my support.However claiming to wear the kilt for cultural reasons could for some,as Doc Canary put it,end up being shown as spurious.

After joining this forum i have realized that there are many out there who enjoy wearing kilts and other similar skirts for various reasons.I think it's great,whether it happens to be a kilt or some sort of pacific islander's grass skirt,the excersize of free will and courageous effrontery to "normal" society in general is to be applauded i think.

But, to wear whatever kind of skirt,sari,lap-a-lapa (or whatever they may be called by someone more knowledgeable than i) without being born into a family where this is part of living,ongoing and deliberately cultivated practice, and then go about saying "it's my family culture",is this really correct?Having some distant relative, that you may have never even met ,hardly qualifies you to claim a culture that you weren't brought up in,particularly if it's from a country no one you know now alive in your family even lives in any more.In a case such as one i have just suggested,would it not be more correct to say,
"i choose to wear the kilt because it is one part of my family history that i,m interested in"?

It's quite simple.Don't get about saying something is yours ,if it's not.The sometimes bewildering array of different ways to wear kilts shown at xmts is most definately a celebration of individuality.And i love that.It is does not in many cases show anything to do with scottish culture.

This is not written to rattle cages or take anything away from someone that is theirs.After all if you're in a family with definate cultural customs then they are just there,no one can take them away and you dont need to prove them.

Also much of this post is not aimed at our o.p because only he knows the extent of his 'family culture' and its not my place to want him to explain it.However in view of the comments by our HR and legal members,i would feel concerned if an issue such as this where brought before a tribunal of sorts, and the kilt wearers whole defence hinged apon the line "it's my family culture."The old saying "there are scots,and those who wish to be" was coined for a reason.

The irony is that for Scots, and those in families whose normal day to day living is significantly influenced by scottish culture,there are that many times to wear the kilt, at occasions that scottish people recognize as times to do so, that they would not dream of the need to make it a 'cultural' issue at the work place.Actually,people wearing the kilt on occasions and in situations where Scots themselves don't often just show how removed they are from scottish culture as it is today.

[Bugbear]

I'm not Scottish.

[Nighthawk]

The point of my earlier post was to pick your battles. Nothing wrong with living by your principles.
It is easy for other to encourage you to follow through with HR and to stand up to the man. Remember, for you this is serious economic business. For us, it is an interesting and entertaining thread on a blog.

Yeah, not for all of us. Believe it or not, there are others here who have been in similar positions, have presented reasonable arguments, and won. In a lot of cases, managers don't realize that that they're making a faux pas based on culture, and go on the incorrect assumption that the kilt is, in fact, some sort of costume. In my case, I had HR explain it to my company owner, and from that point on, he was totally cool with it. He did, as a matter of fact, ask me to wear a kilt as often as I felt like. Except when we had clients touring, in which case, he insisted that I wear my nicest one. He simply didn't realize the cultural and military significance! It may be something as simple as ignorance, and the only people who can effectively explain that kind of thing to management is HR. They most likely won't listen to the employee as they're already prejudiced against us by the assumption that we're all out to get around rules as much as possible. (And I have to point out here that the attitude is in this day and age not completely undeserved. So many people DO try to get away with rediculous crap, so managers are naturally on guard against it.) Talking to HR is the best way to go, especially if you're going on the assumption of simple ignorance.

[AFS1970]

I have no living relatives that I know of in Scotland. IF I do they are so far removed from me that meeting them would be little more than a curiosity. I do have relatives in England but they are the same generation as me, and we have never met (although I hope to change that soon). However I grew up going to the one and only local Scottish event in my city (a Highland Games) and my mother always identified with the Scottish side of our ancestry, something that she passed onto my two brothers and me.

Often when these threads come up, we hear about how those of us whose families have been in the U.S.A. for generations really can't claim Scottish heritage in this way. I am not a lawyer so I can't be sure, but I would venture that many of the people who claim other cultures as the basis for wearing certain clothes, listening to certain music and celebrating certain (non-religious) holidays have been here at least as long as my family has, and probably can not trace their lineage back any better than I can. Despite this similarity, the law is often seen to be on their side when it come to employment cases.

If this really were something one wanted to pursue, I would say give it a try, as it is based on at least as much historical connection as others have used. If this is not something one wants to pursue, then it is all a moot point anyway. It is not for me to tell anyone if they should pursue such a case or not.