Sett size??

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I'll just second what Paul has said. You can indeed change the sett size of the tartan, so long as the overall proportion of the design is maintained.

It is not uncommon at all, when I am putting in an order for custom tartan, for me to specify to the weaver what sett size I want and let them work out the math.

[mookien]

Paul and Matt: Thank you for the clarification/correction. My statement presumes a unilateral decision on the part of the weaver. It certainly makes more sense for the customer and the weaver to mutually agree beforehand on any sett size change. It is good to know that option exists. I'll keep it in mind for possible future reference.

[OC Richard]

For my eye, sett size is more important, or in other words has a greater impact on the look of the finished kilt, than it seems to have for other people.

When I see a man wearing a kilt that's made from tartan having a small sett size it looks strange to me.

As in so many other things, this probably comes from decades of seeing (and wearing) military kilts and getting used to how they are, and spending a lot of time looking at vintage images of Highland Dress.

The Highlanders of Scotland shows a variety of sett sizes being used in the 1860s. Look at the gigantic sett size of the kilt on the left. The kilt on the right has a sett size typical of our kilts today.



There are many kilts to be seen in that book which look better to my eye than any modern kilts of the same tartan simply because a much larger sett size was used.

Large sett sizes maintained to this day by the military:

[Spartan Tartan]

I appreciate the pictures, OC Richard. I think that is part of my concern...I can't get a visual for what the pattern for the Michigan Up North tartan will be in terms of the actual sett. I'm concerned that it would be too small for my liking. I agree with the sentiment that if it's "my district tartan" then so be it...but it's a brand new tartan for the State of Michigan. I have seen some scarves and whatnot, but those are smaller sett...for obvious reasons.

I would hate to drop the money to have a custom weave and not be satisfied with the sett and then ultimately hardly if ever wear the kilt. I would also not like to spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with various sett sizes just to see if I can find the magic ratio...

I rather like the Michigan Up North Tartan, but for the time being, can't bring myself to go "all in" without some better understanding of what the actual woven tartan would look like.

But, I do like those larger setts in your pictures too.

[mookien]

Spartan Tartan: I may not understand your "problem" well enough, but could you take the Michigan Up North threadcount from the SRT and estimate the sett size using an assumption like 48 threads per inch? I think that's pretty reasonable for medium weight tartan, plus or minus a bit for thread size, shrinkage, selvedge, etc.?

Suppose, for example, by doing that you come out with a 5" set, and you regard that as too small for your taste. Based on Paul's and Matt's comments, could you not then work with a weaver (perhaps through your kilt maker) and ask for an increase of 50% (7.5") or 100% (10") to obtain a more aesthetically pleasing sett?

[Spartan Tartan]

Spartan Tartan: I may not understand your "problem" well enough, but could you take the Michigan Up North threadcount from the SRT and estimate the sett size using an assumption like 48 threads per inch? I think that's pretty reasonable for medium weight tartan, plus or minus a bit for thread size, shrinkage, selvedge, etc.?

Suppose, for example, by doing that you come out with a 5" set, and you regard that as too small for your taste. Based on Paul's and Matt's comments, could you not then work with a weaver (perhaps through your kilt maker) and ask for an increase of 50% (7.5") or 100% (10") to obtain a more aesthetically pleasing sett?

I certainly could. And I would, I suppose. I just don't want to have little tiny checks for the tartan...I never thought about how to calculate the size. I'll give that a shot! Thanks!

[Graham A. Robieson]

Greetings,

Previous posts, about the resizing of the sett can be adapted to fit a kilt etc, looking at Scotweb, and I know Brian K mentioned the 8" I have resized the sett from the register, and here is an image:



This is the original sett size from the register:



Also this is a picture of someone wearing the original size sett:




All the best,


Graham


Another note: I do know that different sizes of yarn do effect the outcome/display of a design, and I understand it is difficult to asses the actual size when made to measure for a piticular item, when I got my tartan done, I designed it small scale then times x2 and then x3 to make options for e.g. the small scale would suit a tie, then x2 would maybe suit a scarf and scale x3 I would have for my kilt.

[Spartan Tartan]

Thanks Graham!

[mookien]

Spartan Tartan: Let me know how it works out, or not. I'm curious from a "learning" perspective. I may find myself in your position someday, and if so, would like to have a way to proceed.

By the way (don't take my word for this, because I may be wrong), when you sum up the threads in the threadcount, use the actual number shown on the first and last entries, but you DOUBLE the number on all the interior entries. This assumes the endpoints are pivots and the sett is given by a traversal from one endpoint to the other and back again. Kind of like "The Hobbit" - "There And Back Again".

Good luck!

[zazenkilter]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then aa 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.