Sett size??

[Morris at Heathfield]

I would imagine that a custom run of tartan could be had for the price of a custom run of tartan, no matter what thread count you specify. I don't think a tartan with a particular thread count would be any less difficult to set up than one with the same count doubled.

[mookien]

It is my (admittedly naive) understanding that if a tartan has a small sett size and the weaver is told the cloth is being woven for a kilt (as opposed to something like a dress or upholstery), the weaver will scale the sett up to a size suitable for a kilt. Is that incorrect?

[Paul Henry]

It is my (admittedly naive) understanding that if a tartan has a small sett size and the weaver is told the cloth is being woven for a kilt (as opposed to something like a dress or upholstery), the weaver will scale the sett up to a size suitable for a kilt. Is that incorrect?

Weavers will do as they are told, but they don't "second guess".They won't automatically change the sett size unless they are told to do so.It makes little difference to them what sett size they weave, but they don't want to have to make the decision themselves.Whenever I have requested a special sizing I have always done so in writing and got their agreement likewise.There could well be an instance of the kilt wearer actually wanting a very small sett.Take for example the Shepherds (Northumberland)plaid , which is really nothing more than equal black and white, the weaver would be unwillinging to change the traditional size unless specially asked and likewise the Rob Roy (MacGregor red and Black squares) sett which is normally woven with a larger square than the Shepherds, but essentialky it's the same thread count

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I'll just second what Paul has said. You can indeed change the sett size of the tartan, so long as the overall proportion of the design is maintained.

It is not uncommon at all, when I am putting in an order for custom tartan, for me to specify to the weaver what sett size I want and let them work out the math.

[mookien]

Paul and Matt: Thank you for the clarification/correction. My statement presumes a unilateral decision on the part of the weaver. It certainly makes more sense for the customer and the weaver to mutually agree beforehand on any sett size change. It is good to know that option exists. I'll keep it in mind for possible future reference.

[OC Richard]

For my eye, sett size is more important, or in other words has a greater impact on the look of the finished kilt, than it seems to have for other people.

When I see a man wearing a kilt that's made from tartan having a small sett size it looks strange to me.

As in so many other things, this probably comes from decades of seeing (and wearing) military kilts and getting used to how they are, and spending a lot of time looking at vintage images of Highland Dress.

The Highlanders of Scotland shows a variety of sett sizes being used in the 1860s. Look at the gigantic sett size of the kilt on the left. The kilt on the right has a sett size typical of our kilts today.



There are many kilts to be seen in that book which look better to my eye than any modern kilts of the same tartan simply because a much larger sett size was used.

Large sett sizes maintained to this day by the military:

[Spartan Tartan]

I appreciate the pictures, OC Richard. I think that is part of my concern...I can't get a visual for what the pattern for the Michigan Up North tartan will be in terms of the actual sett. I'm concerned that it would be too small for my liking. I agree with the sentiment that if it's "my district tartan" then so be it...but it's a brand new tartan for the State of Michigan. I have seen some scarves and whatnot, but those are smaller sett...for obvious reasons.

I would hate to drop the money to have a custom weave and not be satisfied with the sett and then ultimately hardly if ever wear the kilt. I would also not like to spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with various sett sizes just to see if I can find the magic ratio...

I rather like the Michigan Up North Tartan, but for the time being, can't bring myself to go "all in" without some better understanding of what the actual woven tartan would look like.

But, I do like those larger setts in your pictures too.

[figheadair]

I would imagine that a custom run of tartan could be had for the price of a custom run of tartan, no matter what thread count you specify. I don't think a tartan with a particular thread count would be any less difficult to set up than one with the same count doubled.

Generally that is the case. In the past I've been charged the same amount per yard even if ordering an off sett design to be used for a jined sett. That said, I have to do all the calculations but it's still amazing that there isn't a premium.

[mookien]

Spartan Tartan: I may not understand your "problem" well enough, but could you take the Michigan Up North threadcount from the SRT and estimate the sett size using an assumption like 48 threads per inch? I think that's pretty reasonable for medium weight tartan, plus or minus a bit for thread size, shrinkage, selvedge, etc.?

Suppose, for example, by doing that you come out with a 5" set, and you regard that as too small for your taste. Based on Paul's and Matt's comments, could you not then work with a weaver (perhaps through your kilt maker) and ask for an increase of 50% (7.5") or 100% (10") to obtain a more aesthetically pleasing sett?

[Graham A. Robieson]

Greetings,

Previous posts, about the resizing of the sett can be adapted to fit a kilt etc, looking at Scotweb, and I know Brian K mentioned the 8" I have resized the sett from the register, and here is an image:



This is the original sett size from the register:



Also this is a picture of someone wearing the original size sett:




All the best,


Graham


Another note: I do know that different sizes of yarn do effect the outcome/display of a design, and I understand it is difficult to asses the actual size when made to measure for a piticular item, when I got my tartan done, I designed it small scale then times x2 and then x3 to make options for e.g. the small scale would suit a tie, then x2 would maybe suit a scarf and scale x3 I would have for my kilt.