What do you guys (squids and jarheads) think of this tartan?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Be warned, fellows, the company that designed this tartan, International Tartans, has a bad reputation for designing tartans "on spec" for places (and now, it seems, military branches) without any kind of authorization - even for entities which already have a recognized tartan. The new tartan is then promoted with rather dubious provenance.

For example, this tartan in question is supposedly for the US Navy and Marine Corps. Even though both the Edzell (Navy) and Leatherneck (USMC) tartans are "unofficial" they have both been around for quite some time and are well recognized, so one may indeed consider them official by wont and usage.

Despite these two tartans being around for quite some time, and both service branches seeming quite content to let them be used without official recognition, suddenly this brand new tartan is claimed to be "now adopted as the 'out of uniform' emblem" for both branches? Adopted by who? He doesn't say. You'd think if there had been any kind of formal recognition it would be cited.

The only provenance for the tartan seems to be a "thank you" letter received by the mayor of San Diego! And, I'm sorry, a "thank you" note does not constitute official recognition of a tartan! And really, even if it did, what authority does the mayor of San Diego have over the Navy or Marines?

This is the modus operandi of this particular company, it would seem. The same company designed a tartan for North Carolina and another for South Carolina despite the fact that both states have passed formal legislation adopting the Carolina tartan as state symbols. On the company's web site it is claimed that the North Carolina tartan was "warmly welcomed by the Secretary of State, Elaine Marshall." First of all, the Secretary of State has no authority to formally recognize a state symbol - that has to be passed through the legislature. Second, I know exactly what happened. She received a gift of the tartan and said "thank you," as anyone would. Our museum received a phone call a short while after from someone in Raleigh (our state capital), very confused because "some man from Scotland" gave them a tartan claiming it was the North Carolina tartan, "but it doesn't look anything like the state tartan we've been using for years."

I really don't like to publicly criticize other companies, but this is the worst kind of false promotion, intended only to mislead people into buying what amount to fraudulent tartans. I feel that people really ought to be made aware and warned away.

[Spartan Tartan]

Good to know Matt! I did some looking into the Carolina tartan as well and saw the other N.C. and S.C. tartans--that kind of threw me for a loop. As for this tartan from the OP, I just figured it was a personal design that recognized "those in peril at sea" in the mind of the designer.

I share your thoughts about the Edzell and Leatherneck tartans as widely used and accepted (even without official service recognition). Sometimes, especially in the military, traditions develop over years and not from some "officially recognized" source. With that in mind, the Edzell and Leatherneck tartans are "traditional" to our Navy and Marines, as they have been widely accepted, worn and has developed over many years.

Thanks for the warning or insight (insight sounds "nicer").

[Drac]

Good to know Matt! I did some looking into the Carolina tartan as well and saw the other N.C. and S.C. tartans--that kind of threw me for a loop. As for this tartan from the OP, I just figured it was a personal design that recognized "those in peril at sea" in the mind of the designer.

I share your thoughts about the Edzell and Leatherneck tartans as widely used and accepted (even without official service recognition). Sometimes, especially in the military, traditions develop over years and not from some "officially recognized" source. With that in mind, the Edzell and Leatherneck tartans are "traditional" to our Navy and Marines, as they have been widely accepted, worn and has developed over many years.

Thanks for the warning or insight (insight sounds "nicer").

***

[Mickey]

My initial impression on seeing the image was "Nice tartan.. something new for the Coast Guard?"

I tried, but I just can't make a connection between this pattern and the USMC, at least in my head. It's a pretty good looking tartan though, and brings the image of "maritime" to my eye.

[macwilkin]

Be warned, fellows, the company that designed this tartan, International Tartans, has a bad reputation for designing tartans "on spec" for places (and now, it seems, military branches) without any kind of authorization - even for entities which already have a recognized tartan. The new tartan is then promoted with rather dubious provenance.

For example, this tartan in question is supposedly for the US Navy and Marine Corps. Even though both the Edzell (Navy) and Leatherneck (USMC) tartans are "unofficial" they have both been around for quite some time and are well recognized, so one may indeed consider them official by wont and usage.

Despite these two tartans being around for quite some time, and both service branches seeming quite content to let them be used without official recognition, suddenly this brand new tartan is claimed to be "now adopted as the 'out of uniform' emblem" for both branches? Adopted by who? He doesn't say. You'd think if there had been any kind of formal recognition it would be cited.

The only provenance for the tartan seems to be a "thank you" letter received by the mayor of San Diego! And, I'm sorry, a "thank you" note does not constitute official recognition of a tartan! And really, even if it did, what authority does the mayor of San Diego have over the Navy or Marines?

This is the modus operandi of this particular company, it would seem. The same company designed a tartan for North Carolina and another for South Carolina despite the fact that both states have passed formal legislation adopting the Carolina tartan as state symbols. On the company's web site it is claimed that the North Carolina tartan was "warmly welcomed by the Secretary of State, Elaine Marshall." First of all, the Secretary of State has no authority to formally recognize a state symbol - that has to be passed through the legislature. Second, I know exactly what happened. She received a gift of the tartan and said "thank you," as anyone would. Our museum received a phone call a short while after from someone in Raleigh (our state capital), very confused because "some man from Scotland" gave them a tartan claiming it was the North Carolina tartan, "but it doesn't look anything like the state tartan we've been using for years."

I really don't like to publicly criticize other companies, but this is the worst kind of false promotion, intended only to mislead people to buying what amount to fraudulent tartans. I feel that people really ought to be made aware and warned away.

Not only that, but at least one of the articles on his web site is plagarised with no citation or credit for an article.

T.

[Geoff Withnell]

Personally, I am not a fan of the purple stripes. I get the symbolism, just never been a fan of the color.

I have always loved the Edzell, and that is what I will be getting. but since you have an Edzell on the way, then I say if you like it, then it is perfect.

It still surprises me that the all the other services have an officially recognized Tartan, but not the Navy.

Actually, I don't think that the Army or Marine Corps have "officially" recognized their tartans. I know there is no mention of the kilt or tartan in USMC uniform regs. When I wear my Leatherneck kilt, it is as "appropriate civilian attire". The Coast Guard has a pipe band, that wears the kilt in the Coastie tartan officially.

[Mickey]

Quite right, Geoff. The USMC does not officially sanction the Leatherneck tartan. It is a corporate tartan only, though as Matt mentioned, it has been unofficially adopted as the "official" tartan by most. I expect the other services are very similar in situation. I love mine, and it does get recognized on occasion, and once, greatly excited an elderly gent who served in the 50's to know that he could get one himself.

[Spartan Tartan]

I never actually did understand why it was listed as Navy and Marine (the OP tartan) either. It does make me think of sea service, but NOT Marines. I do like the tartan, but I'm not one to have a closet full of kilts anyway. I like that I see older gents wearing the Navy Edzell and thereby enjoy having the same tartan to be recognized similarly. Just like any tartan that identifies a group, it's a nice way to start a conversation with someone.

I'll admit though, the Leatherneck tartan is real nice, and I do like it a lot. I, however, am not a marine (nor do I play one on tv), so don't expect to see me wearing it!

[Drac]

I never actually did understand why it was listed as Navy and Marine (the OP tartan) either. It does make me think of sea service, but NOT Marines. I do like the tartan, but I'm not one to have a closet full of kilts anyway. I like that I see older gents wearing the Navy Edzell and thereby enjoy having the same tartan to be recognized similarly. Just like any tartan that identifies a group, it's a nice way to start a conversation with someone.

I'll admit though, the Leatherneck tartan is real nice, and I do like it a lot. I, however, am not a marine (nor do I play one on tv), so don't expect to see me wearing it!

Made some sense to me. Lots of Marines still serve at sea both in avaition and amphib. While I was active most ships still had Marines on their security force. Marines and Navy have a lot of salt between them.

Jim

[macwilkin]

I never actually did understand why it was listed as Navy and Marine (the OP tartan) either. It does make me think of sea service, but NOT Marines. I do like the tartan, but I'm not one to have a closet full of kilts anyway. I like that I see older gents wearing the Navy Edzell and thereby enjoy having the same tartan to be recognized similarly. Just like any tartan that identifies a group, it's a nice way to start a conversation with someone.

I'll admit though, the Leatherneck tartan is real nice, and I do like it a lot. I, however, am not a marine (nor do I play one on tv), so don't expect to see me wearing it!

The Marines are part of the Department of the Navy. And as Drac mentioned, the USMC and USN have a long history together. My uncle Bob was a Navy Corpsman with the Marines in Iceland back in 1941-42.

T.