Ancient or Modern?

**Mad Mick** · 20th April 11, 03:34 AM

I might be being a little dull here, but hopefully someone reading this will either be able to answer me or back me up in my confusion. I am looking to buy a MacDiarmid kilt and had a trawl through the internet to identify the tartan I want. There are a lot of sites advertising MacDiarmid Ancient and MacDiarmid modern. When I look at the Scottish Register of Tartans I find three different setts. One is from the W + AK Johnston collection and carries the STA 1180. One is from the MacGregor Hastie collection and carries the STA 1181. Don't worry about the third. Looking at the Scotweb site I see both Ancient and Modern advertised. When I look at the "Find a Tartan" selection I am presented with Clan and Dress options. Clicking "view" on the Clan option gives me two further options of Family Modern and Family Ancient. The thumbnail for the modern appears to be the MacDiarmid from the Johnston collection (STA 1180) whilst the thumbnail from the Ancient appears to be the MacG-Hastie collection (STA 1181). However, when I "view" either of these the "recorded details" at the bottom of each page show the STA 1180 sett. Scotweb have kindly informed me that MacDiarmid Modern is available from Glena and Lochcarron (who informed me that they have not made MacD modern for over 10 years) and ancient is available from Lochcarron and House of Edgar. I note that the descriptive for STA 1181 states that this tartan is produced by HOE as Ancient and note that Sammac's HOE MacDiarmid Ancient appears to the be the MacG-Hastie tartan (i.e. STA 1181). Scotweb further tell me that the Ancient and Modern variations both apply to the STA 1180. Do they? Are their picture misleading or have I really got it so wrong. They say that the colour variations denote Ancient and Modern. Anyone know what these variations are? They suggest that I purchase a swatch to assist me. I had already done this for a swatch of Modern which came back suggesting it had been produced by Lochcarron in Strome 160z (odd, considering Lochcarron haven't produced Modern for 10+years). I don't want it to seem as though I have a downer on Scotweb, because I was very pleased with the swatch I received and would probably look to them to make the kilt that I want. I just want some clarfication between colour variations, which collection the different tartans are from, have they got their website pictures wrong, or am I being a complete fool. Heeeeelllllpppppppppp.

**davidlpope** · 20th April 11, 05:31 AM

I'm sure that nick from Scotweb will have an answer for you in a jiffy. Have you PM'd him?

Best of luck.

David

**Nick Fiddes** · 21st April 11, 08:37 AM

Hi Mick,

Sorry for the confusion. You're correct that Lochcarron have discontinued this, and we've now corrected this in our database. Unfortunately the mills don't have a system to notify us when a fabric is no longer available, so unless we enquire with an order for example, and with so many thousands of tartans in our lists, we can't always spot these things.

The House of Edgar MacDiarmid Ancient is indeed the MacGregor Hastie STA1181 - House of Edgar just call it MacDiarmid Ancient (hence the confusion). We will also address this at the data level.

So, in brief, if you want modern, we can have it woven for you as a 'glena' special weave.

If you'd prefer ancient, you can have Lochcarron, or special weave.

If you want STA 1181 (The MacGregor Hastie variant) - we can get House of Edgar or a special weave.

I hope this clarifies it for you. Don't hestitate to ask if we can help further.

Best wishes

Nick

**Mad Mick** · 21st April 11, 12:00 PM

Nick
Thankyou for the clarification ( I was beginning to think I was going mad). Does this mean that the MacDiarmid Modern swatch that I received (that was marked up as Lochcarron Strome) was in fact Lochcarron's Ancient? If that is the case, what would be the difference in shades/colours with a Glena special weave in MacDiarmid Modern?

**Hothir Ethelnor** · 21st April 11, 02:32 PM

If the colours are light and pastel with the red turning orange then your swatch is "ancient"

If on the other hand the colours are dark with a blackish navy blue and a deep green and a bright scarlet red then you have a swatch of "modern" colours.

And I'm not speaking out of knowledge here perhaps it's a good question for Nick I'll ask him.

When getting a custom run of cloth made can you specify the colours used even to the point of sending in yarn swatches or is that too much of a hassle to try and keep track of? Let's say I wanted my clan tartan (MacDonell of Keppoch) but I wanted custom shades woven by glena could I ask for a weathered red, mixed with a modern green and royal blue? Or do you have to stick to stock shades when handling orders not placed using the tartan designer.

**Nick Fiddes** · 26th April 11, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Hothir Ethelnor

When getting a custom run of cloth made can you specify the colours used even to the point of sending in yarn swatches or is that too much of a hassle to try and keep track of? Let's say I wanted my clan tartan (MacDonell of Keppoch) but I wanted custom shades woven by glena could I ask for a weathered red, mixed with a modern green and royal blue? Or do you have to stick to stock shades when handling orders not placed using the tartan designer.

D C Dalgliesh who produce most of our glena fabrics for us can weave in almost any shades you specify, provided they have a suitable yarn... otherwise special dying would add significantly to the price. We are currently working on setting up arrangements with them to be able to provide yarn samples, since swatches are obviously not possible with a special weave. We expect to make these a chargeable product, which would be refundable against an eventual order as with swatches.

**Mad Mick** · 26th April 11, 06:18 AM

Nick,
Thanks for the replies. Can you just tell me though, so that I can try and get my head around the differences in shade etc, does this mean that my MacDiarmid Modern (from Lochcarron) swatch that I received from Scotweb would in fact have been the MacDiarmid Ancient (on the basis that you suggest above a special weave swatch is not an option)? I don't have a problem with it if this is the case, it just gives me an idea regarding colours etc.

**Nick Fiddes** · 27th April 11, 11:47 AM

Mick, my best advice at this point would be to suggest you contact Stewart, our retail manager, who I'm sure could sort out your questions in a quick phone call. It's certainly possible for example that Lochcarron could have sent a mis-named swatch, which does happen from time to time, though I've no reason for saying that's the case. Rather than compound your confusion, it would be ideal if you could send us a pic of the one you have, so we can say for sure. I'm still on strictly short-time in the office at the moment, which is why I'd suggest talking to Stewart, who anyway recognises far more tartans than I do! I'm not sure where you are, but if you can't use our toll-free number, then if you PM me with a phone number and suitable times, we could call you.