A sad documentary...PLEASE WATCH

[MacLowlife]

Thanks, Artificer,
I don't know for sure about the comment- whether he disapproved of a prototype or a piece of regular production, or even of a competitor's goods. What I took from his complaint, though, is that we ought to examine goods closely, maybe even with our eyes closed sometimes, to evaluate them carefully.

The poor guy was having a hard time of it, and while I hope he at least liked the attention, I don't know that having filmmakers all over the place made his life much easier.

Those of us old enough to remember the movie THE PAPER CHASE may be interested to know that the grandchildren of Hawkins, as in Hawkins Vs McGee, the "hairy hand case" that was discussed in the movie- Anyway, it is a famous Contracts case learned by many many American law students, and a descendant of Mr Hawkins, I think it was his granddaughter, was surprised to learn of her ancestor's immortality as "the man with the hairy hand". Maybe Mr Scot can take some comfort in knowing, at least, that he is known as the man who is trying to make good sporrans in bad times.

[Drac]

Some parts aren't quite as obvious. I will take knives as that is what I know.

I hope I make knives that should last you long enough to give to your kid, with proper care. Due to the higher material cost (for better materials), high over head and a willingness to only want my best to have my name on it my knives cost more than over the counter piece.

I made a hunter for a co-worker. He is an advide hunter. Several seasons on different animals a year. Add into that wild boar is open season here in Texas from what I understand. He will take care of the knife and give it to no one. His only son hates hunting.

I have no kids and no close nieces or nephews who would share my interest in kilts so I have no one to pass my sporrans or blades on to. For many of us here in America our passions for kilts are a singular thing. Even for those of use who are willing to invest in a piece of work that will last several life times if there is no one to pass it on to it can get hard to justify.

I also have to ask does just because something is made in China or any of the third world nations mean it is inferior just because of that? Cheap can come from the modern nations just as easily. Again I will stick to the custom knife field. I spend a lot of time hand sanding my pieces, hours. I use two different light sources to look at the finish. I am embarrassed if I notice a scratch after I am finish. I have walked around many a knife show and seen pieces that are just plain garbage. I'n not talking beginners or other new makers. I am talking about people who have been making them for years longer than me.

I wanted to bring it up since while it is hard to tell in the typed word but there seems if these countries names were spoken it would be in distaste and hatred. Are the items from Scotland inately better and more valuable than Pakistan's? Does that make the Scottish kilt better and inately more valuable than ones in the USA reguardless of the quality? Which is better a $40US Scottish sporran or the same one for the same price that says made in China?

On the topic of supporting local of historical buisnesses I will pay more for something local. I do believe in supporting my communitty. I get my steel from a company the next town over or I order it (the same company) through a supply shop that is in state. I try to support my own local economy first and work out as I need to while trying to maintain quality resources.

I ask to to try and get an idea of whether this is from bad experiences, indignation or personal pain from seeing a loss to time? I have talked with a friend whos father was a cobbler. He said his father use to go one about the fall of the shoe industry to athletic shoes and cheap disposible shoes. To him shoes and boots were something that could be passed of to kids.

Jim

[Jimmy]

Thanks to the more economical kilts, there has been a considerable increase in the number of kilt wearers everywhere.
We on this forum are all evangelists for kilt wearing, how often does some member post, saying he had spotted a kiltie here or there, we all seem to be delighted when we spot a fellow kiltie.
Everytime I go to a pipe band competition, I marvel at the different tartans and the quality of the kilts worn, there is no substitute for a good quality made kilt, it looks far superior, more dressy and always good on its wearer.
having said this, you then might think it strange that I am also an advocate and evangelist for the cheaper, less dressy version.
I have several good quality kilts and several cheaper versions and having the less costly version allows me to be more kilted more often. Last week I stated on X-MARKS that I felt like wearing my kilt to the pub last Friday in the west end of Glasgow, I just wanted to be kilted and this feeling of wanting to be kilted overcomes me every now and then. (it is probably in common with many forum members.)

So it was a cheaper version worn at the pub, how often does anyone go into a busy pub wearing their Sunday best, I wanted to be kilted, had that burning desire to wear my kilt but I certainly would have resisted this desire if the only kilt I owned cost several hundred pounds.

At the end of the month I am going over to Dublin to watch the national Scottish football team play the Republic of Ireland at the Aviva Stadium, Dublin will probably be awash with the Tartan Army, most of them in some sort of kilt, but very few in a costly kilt (note - Its worth seeing the Tartan Army at away matches, you can ask yourself when is a kilt not a kilt? Any piece of tartan seems to suffice wrapped around the waist - Granny's old tartan shawl is good enough on army duty abroad although there are plenty of proper kilts worn. If we want to look at trendsetters and the avant -garde lobby of the diaspora of kilt wearing, then the Tartan Army is certainly a great barometer and you know what, most of them look great in their ad hoc kilted outfits)
Nevertheless, I am undecided about whether I should wear a good quality kilt or a less pricey one, its not just for the football match but I will be staying at a nice hotel, visiting some nice restaurnts over the 3 days so I want to be reasonably dressed and do not want to bring a second kilt and certainly will not be unkilted
I have rambled on a bit but hopefully you can see that there is a place for less costly kilts, I understand the problems that the traditional kilt makers have and sympathise with them and even though I have subscribed to cheaper versions, I can see clearly the market stall mentality of these vendors

[RockyR]

SNIP... I have rambled on a bit but hopefully you can see that there is a place for less costly kilts, I understand the problems that the traditional kilt makers have and sympathise with them and even though I have subscribed to cheaper versions, I can see clearly the market stall mentality of these vendors

I think the point is lost a bit here. There is NOTHING WRONG (in MY opinion) with less expensive versions of the kilt / sporran. Ford has cars starting at $10 K and go up to $100K... every industry has a 'good, better, best'.

It's the marketing / way the items are described that is the issue. If a retailer accurately desicribes their product / country of origin / intended purpose, then they're operating with complete integrity. If they try to hide the origins / or purposefully misrepresent something, then they aren't being honest with the consumer.

If Ford was marketing their smallest, cheapest, lightest pickup truck for commercial use for hauling heavy loads and saying it was the same as Chevy's most heavy duty commercial truck (a bit of a stretch, but follow me here), would people be able to trust them on other issues?

[seanachie]

I think the point is lost a bit here. There is NOTHING WRONG (in MY opinion) with less expensive versions of the kilt / sporran. Ford has cars starting at $10 K and go up to $100K... every industry has a 'good, better, best'.

It's the marketing / way the items are described that is the issue. If a retailer accurately desicribes their product / country of origin / intended purpose, then they're operating with complete integrity. If they try to hide the origins / or purposefully misrepresent something, then they aren't being honest with the consumer.

If Ford was marketing their smallest, cheapest, lightest pickup truck for commercial use for hauling heavy loads and saying it was the same as Chevy's most heavy duty commercial truck (a bit of a stretch, but follow me here), would people be able to trust them on other issues?

I for one strongly agree with this sentiment. I have been wearing kilts for a little less than 2 years. When I started I did know very much, I have learned some and the audience here tends to be a little bit more knowledgeable. But in my early days I saw ads for "heavy weight 16 oz. PV" and other claims that are at best dubious. Advertising that is not representative of the product and clearly intends to decieve is bad. There are vendors here who I have communicated with and have been very forthright, which I appreciate. Rocky is entirely correct, taking a synthetic sub $100 kilt and representing it as every bit as good as a 100% hand sewn wool tartan is wrong. Advertising that kilt as a lightweight knockabout kilt, fine for running Saturday errands and a flag football match but not up to par for formal events is OK by me.

[R.S.Buff]

purchasing is like voting. Buying an artisan sporran or kilt from someone who cares about kilts is a vote to keep them in existence. If I eat out it is at small independent restaurant that cares about the food they make.

[Lime]

It is a depressing film but businesses need to work very hard to educate their consumers and sell their products and I just didn't see them doing that. Most people are willing to pay more if they understand what they are paying for and get good service. I think it is a very basic error to try and compete on price - there will always be someone willing to undercut so you have to differentiate elsewhere.

I felt sorry for the staff: they clearly use to love working there, had worked there for years but were creeping round on eggshells.

I can see the employers side too: it must be very stressful coming up with a salary each month.

I fear their days are numbered and the fall of any business is sad.

Luckily there appear to be firms (and individuals) in the Highland Attire trade which do take the time to educate their consumers and provide excellent service.

[Zardoz]

I'd read the discussion, but had not watched that film till this morning. As I ran some errands today, I reflected on the subjects of cost and quality, real and percieved. I also considered how I think about the stuff I buy in relation to all this, not just kilts and stuff, lots of things, from cars to coffee cups. And I think that while I usually have not bought the most expensive, or what is percieved to be the 'real deal' every time, I have been pretty satisfied with the value of my choices.

But you know on a second viewing of that film, I have a different, and what might be unpopular opinion of it. Stripping the emotions away and looking at it rationally, I saw a fellow that was haranguing customers on the phone for buying elsewhere, paying folks -including his kid, to produce stuff he's not selling, all the while stacking up unsold inventory till his shop looks more like a hoarder's apartment than a manufacturing facility.
The success or failure of his business has depended on "the way it used to be done" for so long he cannot conceive a plan to handle change other than to blame others, and try to shame people into supporting him. That seems to be a popular business model in the UK; firms like MG, Triumph, and Austin, have used it so well in the past.
And his final comments in the film are an indictment of capitalism! Well, guess what; he might make a hell of a sporran, but the Pakistanis are winning at the capitalism thing.

[McClef]

Upon a second viewing I am reminded of the Edinburgh gentleman's outfitters in The Battle of the Sexes.

[Jaggy thistle]

Ialways buy my sporrans from J anet Eagleton & son and as I wear the kilt everyday and have only one day wear sporran which always weighs in exess of 2 pounds it looks as if it will last several lifetimes totally made in Scotland the price ? £60 !