Kilt to prom on Glee tonight in prime time!

[saxandpipes]

Saxandpipes,may I say I feel that you dress very well in the kilt.You are a fine ambassador of both the kilt and the bagpipes.Apon viewing your public prophile,I have no hesitation in saying that in the pictures shown,you are either as well dressed or the best dressed in the kilt as any others shown in your albums.

I have commented before on this thread, but apon reading further and musing on this topic more,I would like to try to put my own personal view in a clearer manner;

The following applys,I feel,whether you are gay or not,and is adressed to all in general who may take the time to read it.Also please understand that when in the following,I mention wearing the kilt,I am meaning wearing it properly,with well presented hose,sporran,and the upper body attired in a way that compliments both the kilt and the heritage that it stands for.(I know that freedom of choice is available for all,and that's grand.But I feel some must realize that if you present yourself in public with ordinary socks down about your ankles,shoes that do not remotely resemble anything normaly accepted as kilt wear,T shirts that could just as easily be seen over some track pants,and no sporran,then you will leave even those with an understanding of highland wear guessing as to just what it is you are trying to dress to.Those competing in the heavy events excluded)Now to my point.....

Why do you wear the kilt? Is it for what others may think,or for what you hope THEY will think of you?If so, then how you will feel about yourself wearing it will be effected everytime you go out,depending on the reactions of who you meet.

Do you wear the kilt because you are Scottish or because of Scottish background in your family,or even because you admire this Scottish custom and wish to share in it?Then understand that not everybody will get it!Lets be frank,some folk will, due to their family upbringing,feel that you are something to laugh at,that your are effeminate.For heaven sakes not every one connects the kilt with manliness.BUT WE DO. Scottish people and their descendants have for centuries.This is our heritage.Wear it for that, and you will realize that WHAT THE OTHERS THINK MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

That includes some daft TV show writers who would not know the difference between a claidhmor and a clooty dumpling.We who wear the kilt correctly and for the right reasons are worlds apart from these folk.Do not even justify their ignorant and clumsy miss use of the kilt and how it should be worn with any reaction other than to have a wee chuckle to yourself whilst thinking 'take a look at that numpty!'Then step back out with your kilt on and your head high,with all of your families history and tradition carried proudly on your squared shoulders,because WE KNOW, and they HAVEN'T A CLUE.

We who care about Scottish heritage don't need a show on television to educate the world as to how good the kilt is,nor do we need how they may or may not portray the kilt to feel good about ourselves in it.Make no mistake,the kilt has long been worn in a brave,strong and correct manner by men both straight and gay for hundreds of years now,and no show like glee or any horde of immresionable TV viewers can change that,now or into the future.

P.s Hang in there Saxandpipes,I think you are aquitting yourself with honour.

Thank you for your compliments! Even though your pictures are a little dark, I can see that you are a very well turned-out man, so I really do appreciate your opinion here.

You also make your points a little better than I am doing myself currently. I just want to people to see that the issue is not whether the guy is gay or not, and I feel like that is having a hard time getting through.

Cheers,

Michael

[saxandpipes]

...
So really, if I'm asked if I'm gay, it's not as simple as just responding "no". Besides, how many people really come up and ask people questions like that?

If that doesn't really happen, then why are people so concerned about a gay guy in the media wearing a kilt?

[saxandpipes]

Saxandpipes: what would you think if I concluded by the way someone wore the kilt that they were really a straight man when in fact they were gay? Would it bother you?

Well, one of my best friends informed me recently, that I dress like a straight guy... after slight clarification "I mean a well-dressed straight guy" I decided to take it as the compliment that was intended. ;)

[saxandpipes]

His comments weren't hateful. You construed them to be offensive--there's a difference. When people disagree with you and your worldview, it doesn't make them hateful. To write that they are isn't however slander--but it might be libel. You want others to consider what they say carefully so that they don't hurt your feelings, but whenever you besmirch the name of a minister by taking his written words out of context and construe them to be in your terms "hateful", then you begin to actually interfere with the man's living--not to mention his personal honor.

Look, I don't care if someone hurts my feelings, I'm not defending my world-view, I'm defending people that are regularly put down- and were having that done here. I was simply trying to stick up for the down-trodden. People might not hear the hate in their own words, but it doesn't mean that others won't hear it. I will include the (full) quote that I assume you are referring to:

The picture I saw had him in a prince charlie and it wasn't pleated all around just badly worn. Wouldn't it have been great if one of the STRAIGHT characters had worn it so they couldn't dismiss it as a skirt on a gay guy? I hate that show anyway.

Certainly no reference to hate there anywhere...

The fact that someone is a priest, a rabbi or the pope has nothing to do with it. In my opinion someone in such a position of power over others must take the responsibilty themselves to choose their own words carefully.

And the point is that all of the comments I quoted are negative about gay people wearing kilts- why?! It makes no bloody difference. Why is that so hard to swallow?

[biblemonkey]

Look, I don't care if someone hurts my feelings, I'm not defending my world-view, I'm defending people that are regularly put down- and were having that done here. I was simply trying to stick up for the down-trodden. People might not hear the hate in their own words, but it doesn't mean that others won't hear it. I will include the (full) quote that I assume you are referring to:

Originally Posted by biblemonkey
"The picture I saw had him in a prince charlie and it wasn't pleated all around just badly worn. Wouldn't it have been great if one of the STRAIGHT characters had worn it so they couldn't dismiss it as a skirt on a gay guy? I hate that show anyway."

Certainly no reference to hate there anywhere...

The fact that someone is a priest, a rabbi or the pope has nothing to do with it. In my opinion someone in such a position of power over others must take the responsibilty themselves to choose their own words carefully.

And the point is that all of the comments I quoted are negative about gay people wearing kilts- why?! It makes no bloody difference. Why is that so hard to swallow?

Saxandpipes,
Please do not use my posts as examples of hate towards the homosexual community. I explained myself and I thought we had reached an understanding. PM sent as this is not the place for the more in depth response I have concerning your recent posts.

Best wishes,
Hugh

P.S. I am not a priest, rabbi, or anything of the sort. Just a man who doesn't like Glee for reasons that have nothing to do with homosexuality and happens to be a Christian.

P.S.S. I hate that American Idol show too. (;0P

[Detroitpete]

How much time has passed since this show aired? We're into 13 pages of comments on it! Wow! I'd say that it definitely seemed to make an impression here.

I'll add my 2 cents. I think the young man looked great. If he were my son or nephew I would have been proud of him. I also appreciate the positive impact that his character may be having on young gay men as they struggle through High School.

[Bugbear]

Saxandpipes,
Please do not use my posts as examples of hate towards the homosexual community. I explained myself and I thought we had reached an understanding. PM sent as this is not the place for the more in depth response I have concerning your recent posts.

Best wishes,
Hugh

P.S. I am not a priest, rabbi, or anything of the sort. Just a man who doesn't like Glee for reasons that have nothing to do with homosexuality and happens to be a Christian.

P.S.S. I hate that American Idol show too. (;0P

biblemonkey, I think Semiomniscient was referring to Zardoz as ULC minister and saxandpipes misunderstood who was being discussed, though as you know, Nighthawk is also a minister (pagan) who was quoted in saxandpipes post in question.

You know something else I'm not too jazzed about? Being slandered.
I, along with others are accused of being homophobic in a post on this forum. Saxandpipes quotes one line from my earlier post out of context to support his agenda.

Anyone who knows me or reads my posts on this forum knows I am in no way anti-gay! I recently posted photos from a huge invitation only Mardi Gras ball where my wife and I are some of the few straight attendees. Hell, as a ULC minister, I presided over a same sex handfasting a couple weeks ago!

I do not like having my name and an out of context quote being painted with someone's broad brush of bigotry in a post that remains on the forum for members and lurkers to see.

Hope that untangles the discussion a little.

[Semiomniscient]

Look, I don't care if someone hurts my feelings, I'm not defending my world-view, I'm defending people that are regularly put down- and were having that done here. I was simply trying to stick up for the down-trodden. People might not hear the hate in their own words, but it doesn't mean that others won't hear it. I will include the (full) quote that I assume you are referring to:



Certainly no reference to hate there anywhere...

The fact that someone is a priest, a rabbi or the pope has nothing to do with it. In my opinion someone in such a position of power over others must take the responsibilty themselves to choose their own words carefully.

And the point is that all of the comments I quoted are negative about gay people wearing kilts- why?! It makes no bloody difference. Why is that so hard to swallow?

I was referring to your depiction of Zardoz's comments. But whatever, I've had enough. The fact that people can't speak honestly about a subject without being accused of being hateful is just stupidity. It's dismissive and ad hominim and never addresses the actual subject at hand. I've explained the reasoning behind distinguishing between the sexual orientations. But you want to equate differentiation with discrimination and hate. So I think there's nothing more that can be said of this. This has carried on for far too long as is anyway.

[biblemonkey]

...The fact that people can't speak honestly about a subject without being accused of being hateful is just stupidity. It's dismissive and ad hominim and never addresses the actual subject at hand...

But you want to equate differentiation with discrimination and hate. So I think there's nothing more that can be said of this. This has carried on for far too long as is anyway.

*** and bravo!

[saxandpipes]

I was referring to your depiction of Zardoz's comments. But whatever, I've had enough. The fact that people can't speak honestly about a subject without being accused of being hateful is just stupidity. It's dismissive and ad hominim and never addresses the actual subject at hand. I've explained the reasoning behind distinguishing between the sexual orientations. But you want to equate differentiation with discrimination and hate. So I think there's nothing more that can be said of this. This has carried on for far too long as is anyway.

People are of course free to say what they want (I wouldn't want it any other way) I merely pointed out how the conversations were looking to me, and might do to someone else. I was trying to give a friendly warning against where I saw this thread heading.

I've actually tried to move on from that whole issue, and you continue to quote me from my original posts-

You've cornered me into explaining myself, by again having to dig up things I referenced in the beginning (when I was trying to illustrate my point that you were wrong about people keeping their judgements to themselves). While trying to figure out what you're still talking about, I've inadvertently brought back people into this argument (between you and I!) that really don't deserve it.

I apologise to those people in question- I never meant to imply that you are hateful people, just that you were using some words which might seem like nothing to you, but to a gay person... actually mean something.

I'm sorry Zardoz, Biblemonkey, Elliottrohan68, Nighthawk, TurboKittie and Tobus that I singled your words out.


Michael

[Edit: comment removed from public forum]