What's Modern Kilt Wear> ...or...what's this subforum really about?

[Zardoz]

Well, it seems Steve has identified the problem(s)....

Now, what to do... what to do ?

[macwilkin]

If I have offended with my comments, then my sincere apologies. It is not my wish to offend anyone. I am a traditionalist, but I can only hold myself to those standards.

V/R,

Todd

[Cowher]

Awesome guys!

So I have a question. Is there a formal look for modern kilt wear? For instance Jock has posted puctures of himself out walking or fishing. That would be a casual look for a traditional style. And we have all scene a more formal look for the traditional style.

[seanachie]

Steve, I understand the point of your message above amd read it carefully, I think there is a caveat that comes with that. I am a involved in local governance and meetings sometime issues get visceral and contentious and sometime there is a large majority that feels a certain way. Now to prevent members from a minority view from being drowned out rules of decorum and how meetings are conducted are firmly established. No issue there. But if the people who have problems perceive complaining to a higher authority outside the meeting will get them results I take great issue with that. "The members who are frustrated want to respond with “They then contact me and voice their disappointment that nothing can be done about being made to feel this way."So if a certain minority take a particular position, and are criticized but within the rules of decorum, can complain to the mods and get anything perceived as negative squelched that is not good either. It stifles good debate. I am not saying that has occured, just that is something to look at. An innocuous comment that makes someone feel bad, well that is awfully subjective.

[Joshua]

...consider re-naming this forum to something more apt like “Unconventional Kilt Wear” to more accurately define the type of kilts that many posting here wish to discuss rather than what a few posting here consider as “modern” kilt wear but which is really only what casual or informal kilt wear has always been.
Tight lines, Jock!

I agree with this. I consider most of my highland wear to be semi-traditional, mostly due to weather. However, there are times I'll be out and about in scrunched hose, boots, and a t-shirt. That I would consider "unconventional" and I would happily concede it is my take on "modern, unconventional, casual kilting".

[Lyle1]

I agree with this. I consider most of my highland wear to be semi-traditional, mostly due to weather. However, there are times I'll be out and about in scrunched hose, boots, and a t-shirt. That I would consider "unconventional" and I would happily concede it is my take on "modern, unconventional, casual kilting".

I don't consider scrunched hose, boots, or a t-shirt to be "unconventional" when worn with a kilt. To use the lable "unconventional" is to suggest that we recognize and accept a standard or set of rules for wearing a kilt which these items do not meet. Look around; scrunched hose, boots, and t-shirts are common items of apparel, today, and to apologize for wearing them with a kilt (and, worse, to expect others to apologize) is not acceptable to me.

If you want to adhere to the conventions of Scottish dress that developed between 1901 and the 1980's, celebrate the experience, but don't tell me that any deviation from those conventions is "unconventional" in 2011!

I do not see a problem with the way this forum is defined. It is quite clear that it is a forum for discussions of kilts as they have been worn since the 1980's. That is inclusive all forms of modern kilts as well for traditional kilts worn with other clothing that would not have been worn with kilts before the1980's.

The problem is that some members treat any discussion in this forum with disdain, and rudely belittle or dismiss any idea or fashion that does not measure up to their own perception of the right way to think or dress. To argue with those people is a waste of time, for both the offended party and to other members who are reading the discussion; to bring their rudeness to the attention of the moderators and the owner is appropriate.

[Cowher]

The problem is that some members treat any discussion in this forum with disdain, and rudely belittle or dismiss any idea or fashion that does not measure up to their own perception of the right way to think or dress. To argue with those people is a waste of time

I have to disagree. I have been guilty of making comments that express my style preference when they were not asked for. After reading threads like this I will make a conscious effort to not do that.

Also you to say that you are don't like being called unconventional. Well I feel that being told that the way the traditionalists wear the kilt stopped in the 1980's is wrong. Both ways are popular TODAY! I do think that people on both sides are getting overly sensitive and also overly aggressive.
This is not a F--- you!!!! No... F---you kind of discussion this is a request for respect.

Traditionalist: when posting here keep in mind that this is how they like to dress. Keep it kind and try to contribute in a positive way.

Modernists: don't act like the traditionalist just took a poo on the hood of your car. Ease up a little bit. And keep posting what you like to see. Keep YOUR conversation going despite what others say. Make your voice heard.

[Andy Proffitt]

Guys, put it in perspective.

ALL KILT WEARING IS UNCONVENTIONAL IN 2011!

We live in a world where pants are the norm and we kilt wearers are in the extreme minority, even the traditional kilt wearers who, according to some, have multiplied like wet Gremlins. I am fairly traditional when I kilt up, but I know I have more in common (sartorially speaking) with the guy wearing the UK, than the guy in the cargo shorts and flip flops who is looking at me trying to think up a skirt comment that won't get him punched (there are none).

The infighting benefits us not at all. If you don't like what someone is wearing or what someone says, don't look/listen. People are getting upset over clothes. I like English cut suits over the Italian jobs, but what purpose does it serve to get in a fight with someone over the height of the gorge, wool flannel v. super 100s etc,etc...who cares?!? I have people who have questioned my sexuality for wearing a pink shirt: 1) Do you think I cared 2) Do you think I stopped? No, and I don't think many on here would stop because of what some random jerk said in our day to day lives. So why get so heated up here over threads and posts from people who share out interest in the kilt, be it from a Traditional or Modern view?

Everyone needs to back away from the computer, grab a beer, go sit outside and relax. None of what goes on here really matters, it is discussion about a style of dress (and some history) we really like. This is supposed to be downtime. This isn't life or death. As Jock Scot has said numerous times "Kilts just are not that important." Yeah,there are some people on this forum (every forum) who are jerks, gloss over their thread. Three of the people I enjoy reading the most ,Todd Alan and Jock, were in the ring in this thread and I don;t think any of them are pot stirrers or jerks.

Again, lets all just relax. Don't take kilts or ourselves that seriously. Now how about a glass of Harpoon and a chorus of Kumbaya?

[Steve Ashton]

I remember the early days of the forum when we would joke about the "Kilt Cops". There were comments like: (delivered in very poor, and politically incorrect, Mexican accents) "Kilt Cops? We don't need no stinking Kilt Cops."

In those days it was recognized that there is no single, proper, or correct way to wear the kilt.

The Modern Kilt Wear forum section's description is correct. "As the kilt is worn today."
That is everything including full Prince Charlie with all the bells and whistles and also a totally punked out or goth kilt with enough spikes to terrify an airport security agent.

I hope that this discussion will once again let our members know that the strength of this forum is that we graciously accept all the ways to wear the kilt. The only thing that matters here is that you wear it.

In the Traditional Kilt Wear section of the forum there is a widely debated but accepted way that the kilt was worn, then. There is no written rule or law about how how the kilt was worn but there is an understanding of what is meant when someone says they wear their kilt in the Traditional manner.

This section is for how it is worn today. Wear it in what ever manner you are comfortable with and with pride.

The thing we seem to have missed somewhere along the line is that when someone says something like "that's not traditional" it can be perceived by others as being dismissive and implying that one way is correct and everything else is wrong. What was intended by one as helpful and instructive can be perceived by another as snobbish. It may not have been the intent of the comment but it is how it can be received and interpreted.

I hope that this discussion can remind us that the internet can, at times, be a very poor method of communication.

Kilt Cops? We don't need no stinking Kilt Cops!

[Lyle1]

I have to disagree. I have been guilty of making comments that express my style preference when they were not asked for. After reading threads like this I will make a conscious effort to not do that.

Also you to say that you are don't like being called unconventional. Well I feel that being told that the way the traditionalists wear the kilt stopped in the 1980's is wrong. Both ways are popular TODAY! I do think that people on both sides are getting overly sensitive and also overly aggressive.
This is not a F--- you!!!! No... F---you kind of discussion this is a request for respect.

Traditionalist: when posting here keep in mind that this is how they like to dress. Keep it kind and try to contribute in a positive way.

Modernists: don't act like the traditionalist just took a poo on the hood of your car. Ease up a little bit. And keep posting what you like to see. Keep YOUR conversation going despite what others say. Make your voice heard.

I agree with you, and Steve's last post sums the situation up well. This forum is for how kilts are worn, today, whether they are traditional kilts worn in a traditional manner, traditional kilts worn in non-traditional ways, or totally modern kilts. I don't think any look worn today should be excluded. I have learned things or gotten ideas from posts about style choices that I would never wear. Sometimes seeing a new idea that is outside your normal scope of things makes you think, and when you think you get new ides of your own! When you see a look or style posted that you really don't like, don't assume that you have a right to be offended.

I only wear traditional kilts, though one of them is a box pleated kilt which some people would do not consider traditional. Sometimes I wear them with accessories that would make a traditionalist proud, and sometimes I don't. I have a very nice tweed argyll jacket for day-wear, but my evening jacket is a quite contemporary tuxedo jacket cut down to kilt length. (I did not like it as a tuxedo jacket, but the elements that I disliked, made it perfect for wearing with a kilt, once it was shortened. If I had only looked at tux jackets that I would normally like, I wouldn't have a kilt jacket that I really like for evening wear.) I have several pairs of brogues, but I've never worn them with kilts, because I don't care for the look. In hot and humid weather, I don't wear a jacket, my shirt will have short sleeves, and I will probably wear loafers. I think it is all valid, and I do not feel obligated defend my choices. I don't think I would ever wear a PC, but I don't think less of people who do wear them, and I will admit that a PC can look very nice, when worn by someone else!

I did not mean to ramble, but there you are.