Clan Tartan Appropriateness

[CDNSushi]

Hmmm. My own practice is to wear only "universal" tartans e.g. Isle of Skye, or clan tartans that I have some connection to.

Yes, but for all practical matters it doesn't friggin' even matter. As someone else already pointed out, I've had the unfortunate personal experience of having a self-proclaimed tartan expert lecture me on how my (universal) Isle of Skye was, in fact, his clan's tartan, and that I needed permission to wear it. <sigh>

Therefore, (and given the wide range of responses here -- all the way from: "no, I'd be honoured" all the way to: "I'd be miffed") -- does it really even MATTER then what we wear, given that you're equally likely to encounter someone who is offended by your choice of attire (justifiably or not) as you are someone who is flattered?

[caig]

This is one of those subjects where there is no law against doing something, but that does not make it "right" nonetheless. In Scotland it is generally accepted that one wears ones own clan tartan, and a man would not usually even consider wearing another clan tartan, where he had no affiliation.

This is something that the Scots have grown up with and not something which is even thought about deliberately. I appreciate that for those living elsewhere this sense of "automatic-ness" does not exist.

It remains incorrect, even when you are not challenged about it.

[Chas]

Yes, but for all practical matters it doesn't friggin' even matter. As someone else already pointed out, I've had the unfortunate personal experience of having a self-proclaimed tartan expert lecture me on how my (universal) Isle of Skye was, in fact, his clan's tartan, and that I needed permission to wear it. <sigh>

Therefore, (and given the wide range of responses here -- all the way from: "no, I'd be honoured" all the way to: "I'd be miffed") -- does it really even MATTER then what we wear, given that you're equally likely to encounter someone who is offended by your choice of attire (justifiably or not) as you are someone who is flattered?

But the question, surely, was how do WE feel? We cannot possibly regulate the thoughts and feelings of others, we can only marshal our own thoughts.

Regards

Chas

[EagleJCS]

I also see kids that I know personally in bits of scout wear here that I know were not in the scouts and it bugs me too. Not my place to say anything to them, but yeah.

Actually, BSA (US) items are restricted to registered members only, and the National office rigorously defends that position. In the past, celebrities who have worn parts of uniforms as part of their costume, etc., have been asked to stop wearing them (Destiny's Child and Axl Rose are relatively recent examples). Thrift stores are routinely asked to cull their secondhand clothing and remove any uniform items and hand them over to their local council office to prevent non-members from purchasing/wearing those items. (It's a question that has come up in the past at adult leader training sessions in my local council).

As far as I know, the local councils don't have a directive to police the use of the uniform (the professionals don't stop everyone they see with a bit of uniform to check their membership status), but there's an effort to reduce the possibility of poor reflection on the Scout movement by people wearing bits and behaving badly.

Depending on the circumstances, I probably wouldn't say anything to the person wearing the item in question, but I would be perturbed. If I were wearing my uniform, I might say something, especially if it were a girl wearing a Cub Scout shirt (the BSA is boys only to age 14). (99% of the time, I'm wearing it per the Insignia Guide guidelines, which lends a bit of 'official' weight.)


For the OP topic, I'm torn between the two camps: on the one hand, I'd be glad to see someone wearing any of the Scott tartans. I'd be curious as to their connection, but wouldn't necessarily ask. On the other hand, it's a bit of a rarity in this part of the country (there aren't that many Clan Scott members around here - right now it's just me in KY), so I'd be interested in finding out if they know about the Clan Scott Society and possibly determine if we were related.

[McClef]

This is one of those topics that makes a regular appearance in these forums!

You will always see the posts of the traditionalists who think nobody should wear the tartan of any other clan but their own, those who think it's OK providing they have gained the permission of a Clan Chief or Clan Association and those who have no qualms about wearing any clan tartan without seeking such permission, and as there has been no known prohibitions generally publicised such permission is therefore implied. Even then there will be those that argue that respect of the Clan and some knowledge of it is also to be desired.

What doesn't change much is the individual opinions unless I have missed a conversion from one POV to another!

[longhuntr74]

After reading 4 pages of opinions, I'm almost relieved about the fact that my Scottish ancestry does not have a tartan associated with the name.

I've recently done quite a bit of genealogical research and connected with a long lost cousin with whom I share common Scottish Ancestry. I found out that my clan is a lowland clan (from Berwickshire) and that, while they do have a clan badge, there is no specific clan tartan. I think I'll go on continuing to wear my US Army tartan (not a clan, but something I have a VERY strong relationship with...the Army, that is, not necessarily the cloth itself) or the more generic district or universal tartans.

To comment on Mickey's original question...I think the comment about family vs. genealogical society posted by another member is spot on. If your step grandfather was a Campbell, was proud of his family, and considered you part of that family, I'd say you're right to wear THAT tartan unless you had another direct clan that you were paternally aligned with (which I gather is not the case).

The simple fact is that, for most of our US (perhaps also true of our Canadian, French, Australian, etc) membership on this forum, the closest we come to being Scottish is a grandparent...or maybe a great grandparent. In such cases, we're often 2+ generations removed from true Scottish traditions. I see nothing wrong with our attempts to revive that connection to our roots, but we should never try to make ourselves something that we are not.

[tripleblessed]

Mickey,
I am a member of Clan Campbell of North America and I wear the Campbell tartan, but I am related distantly and through my mothers family and "technically" for the crumudgeons I am not a real Campbell. My understanding is that the Scots trace their lines paternally.

We also encourage membership for non-Campbell's as well. This is really not much different than how it was done in the old country when smaller weaker families would ally themselves with their dominate and stronger neighbors.

Historically, traditionally and presently some prefer maternal lines, depending on origin of clan, inheriting titles (choosing your mother's surname/clan to accept a title), and various personal reasons. Historically, this was mostly nobody else's business (see Jock's comments about knowing someone extremely well before asking). For the next statement, please note it is an observation of history, not a cultural insult. It has always struck me as an irony approaching ludicrous that such such an independent-minded group as Gaelic Highland Scots would ever allow a Norman court authority over such matters (much like inviting Edward to choose who had the best claim to the throne). Not my decision, I'm not judging or intending insult. One of those oddities of history that I personally find amusing, not WRONG. It is worth noting that the webpage of the Lyon court used to state clearly and in no uncertain terms that if you did not meet their stringent requirements, you have no claim to clan membership. Then it went on to say in another part of the page that clan membership and tartan matters were outside the purview of that court; membership is whoever the chief says it is, and tartans are noted only as as courtesy to the chiefs so the clan will know the chief's choice and that choice is changeable at the behest of the chief. Also, that the chief's choice was not a statement of ownership, as has been claimed by individuals here. As here and everywhere else in the known universe, certain individuals claim the authority to arrogate unto themselves or their choice of leader rights not granted them by law. And please don't yell at me about my credentials. I read the page. I reread the page. when it came up here, I went BACK and reread again. That's what it said. PERTOD. A couple of months back after a statement was made here, I went back. It no longer has that on the page.

As an aside, how's that strong dominating the weaker neighbors working out for everybody?

[R.S.L. Kiltwearer]

One thing came to mind for me is all the garment manufacturers that make clothing - from shirts to bathrobes - in clan tartans.

Rather than upset me when I see one of my clan tartans made up into a shirt, bathrobe, or whatever - I rejoice, order it, and wear it proudly
.

even thought i have no clan, this makes makes alot of sense.
and i would think this is the stance i would take.
(again if i had a clan) more offence would be taken if i saw someone wearing the clan badge, and found out that person had no ties to it.
to me its the same as when non millitary people wear military insignias.......

just my 2cents and no offence is ment to anyone

[creagdhubh]

I know that most, if not all, Clan tartans are not THAT old, compared to many antiquities, but many tartans are still older than some countries.

Having said that, I would not even consider any other tartan other than my own. With two exceptions that will never apply to me at my age! One; a Regimental Tartan that I would wear as an official uniform and Two; as a member of a pipe band.

I am blessed with two step children and their mother and I have no problem at all in encouraging them to wear their late father's tartan rather than mine and that is only right and proper in my view. My dear wife, I am glad to say, proudly wears mine rather than her own family one ,or, her late husband's.

Well said Jock.

[AKScott]

If I am a good enough step father that one of my sons wants to wear my clan tartan, I would be honored.