Clan Tartan Appropriateness

[Jock Scot]

I quite agree that the Clan Chief is the final arbiter over what is, or isn't the Clan tartan.

I know that it is a bit of a shock to many to discover that some Clan tartans are only a few years old, or only, at best, some 200 years old. Added to that, to then discover that there is considerable doubt over its authenticity due to the bogus claims of a brace of brothers is confusing and disheartening to some. However when all said and done the then Chief of the Clan has chosen it, he has spoken, that is how it is, and when added to the long and often grizzly history of Scotland peppered with almost daily skulduggery of one sort or another, it is all rather true to form and in its way, rather quaint and we really should not get too wound up about the finer points with the history of a particular tartan.

We Scots really don't give this Clan thing----tartan thing too much thought,on the whole we know the form about the Clan, its history, which is not necessarily the same as Clan tartan history, but still part of it. We do what we do, we think what we think and regard "our" tartan rather like a club colours rather than anything else.

[creagdhubh]

I quite agree that the Clan Chief is the final arbiter over what is, or isn't the Clan tartan.

I know that it is a bit of a shock to many to discover that some Clan tartans are only a few years old, or only, at best, some 200 years old. Added to that, to then discover that there is considerable doubt over its authenticity due to the bogus claims of a brace of brothers is confusing and disheartening to some. However when all said and done the then Chief of the Clan has chosen it, he has spoken, that is how it is, and when added to the long and often grizzly history of Scotland peppered with almost daily skulduggery of one sort or another, it is all rather true to form and in its way, rather quaint and we really should not get too wound up about the finer points with the history of a particular tartan.

We Scots really don't give this Clan thing----tartan thing too much thought,on the whole we know the form about the Clan, its history, which is not necessarily the same as Clan tartan history, but still part of it. We do what we do, we think what we think and regard "our" tartan rather like a club colours rather than anything else.

Well stated Jock, and I tend to agree with you, as well as with what tripleblessed mentioned above. For me, whatever Cluny decides as far as Macpherson tartans, is what goes, and is what I adhere to. Many Macpherson folk will also wear the Clan Chattan tartan, as the Macphersons were once (and in my opinion still should be - not Mackintosh - this is another topic all together ) Chiefs of the Clan Chattan Confederacy, and 'our race' were inherent followers of St. Cattan.

Slainte,

[Gael Ridire]

Wow, eight pages later my 2 bits:

If one chooses a certain tartan because they like it then that is just fine! Does wearing such tartan give the impression of being connected to that clan, yes. But hey, wear whatever tartan you like! Just don't state that you have a "right" to wear it. Those who have a "right" are clan members period. But to say you wear it to honor a forefather/mother then that's cool!

When I first got into my Scottish ancestry I wore the closest lineage I could trace back to Scotland - Kennedy. I wrote to be recognized by the clan chief, and was. But in time (years) it bothered me that my surname wasn't that of the clan even though I was a recognized member. When I became an Irish armiger and wrote to tell the chief, his reply was not to mix my Irish arms with his tartan. Okay. Years pasted, politics got involved with the American society leadership and I left.

Organized the O'Brien Clan and met with the clan chief who showed me that a tartan had been designed by an O'Brien downunder. However he wouldn't authorize it because tartan is not worn by the Irish in a kilt. Now I found a mill in the UK that does an ancient version of the O'Brien tartan which I dearly love and to have an 8 yrd kilt made would cost me $900 - yikes!!!!!

Recently I found sites about the PV kilts, and find this cost accepting. Face it, most only wear the kilt a few times a year. Pretty expensive for college students (my three kids & spouses). Problem with the PV kilts, the range is terrible!!! Enter the district or national tartans. I really like the Irish nation tartan! It honors my Irish heritage, yet the tartan honors my Scottish heritage, and various things are available in it too. And there's no chief to tell me what I can and can't do concerning its use (lets face it why declare allegiance to a clan chief if not willing to follow his counsel?). I'm waiting on the family to make a choice, and it may be years!!! Meantime, my one son-in-law who is Slavic by blood, attended a music fest where a vendor was selling Sport Kilts, being able to afford one, he bought the Black Stewart because he liked it. However, my wife's lienage descends from the first Stewart to America, Duncan Stewart who was banished to New England in 1653 as a P.O.W. So my wife thinks the family tartan is now the Black Stewart. One good point is the sett can be found in cotton at the fabric stores. So to wear it in honor of Duncan Stewart & it can be obtained cheaply - Hmmmm?

[O'Callaghan]

Wow, eight pages later my 2 bits:

If one chooses a certain tartan because they like it then that is just fine! Does wearing such tartan give the impression of being connected to that clan, yes. But hey, wear whatever tartan you like! Just don't state that you have a "right" to wear it. Those who have a "right" are clan members period. But to say you wear it to honor a forefather/mother then that's cool!

When I first got into my Scottish ancestry I wore the closest lineage I could trace back to Scotland - Kennedy. I wrote to be recognized by the clan chief, and was. But in time (years) it bothered me that my surname wasn't that of the clan even though I was a recognized member. When I became an Irish armiger and wrote to tell the chief, his reply was not to mix my Irish arms with his tartan. Okay. Years pasted, politics got involved with the American society leadership and I left.

Organized the O'Brien Clan and met with the clan chief who showed me that a tartan had been designed by an O'Brien downunder. However he wouldn't authorize it because tartan is not worn by the Irish in a kilt. Now I found a mill in the UK that does an ancient version of the O'Brien tartan which I dearly love and to have an 8 yrd kilt made would cost me $900 - yikes!!!!!

Recently I found sites about the PV kilts, and find this cost accepting. Face it, most only wear the kilt a few times a year. Pretty expensive for college students (my three kids & spouses). Problem with the PV kilts, the range is terrible!!! Enter the district or national tartans. I really like the Irish nation tartan! It honors my Irish heritage, yet the tartan honors my Scottish heritage, and various things are available in it too. And there's no chief to tell me what I can and can't do concerning its use (lets face it why declare allegiance to a clan chief if not willing to follow his counsel?). I'm waiting on the family to make a choice, and it may be years!!! Meantime, my one son-in-law who is Slavic by blood, attended a music fest where a vendor was selling Sport Kilts, being able to afford one, he bought the Black Stewart because he liked it. However, my wife's lienage descends from the first Stewart to America, Duncan Stewart who was banished to New England in 1653 as a P.O.W. So my wife thinks the family tartan is now the Black Stewart. One good point is the sett can be found in cotton at the fabric stores. So to wear it in honor of Duncan Stewart & it can be obtained cheaply - Hmmmm?

This is the first time I ever heard of an Irish chief even having an opinion on the tartan of his clan. I suppose this is for the very reason he gave, that Irish kilts are not traditionally tartan. Certainly, the Callaghan tartan is not recognised by the chief, and I would not really expect any Irish clan tartan to be.

The 2 sets of Irish county tartans, and the numerous national tartans that claim to represent Ireland, are nothing but the work of the tartan mills, but then so are many of the Scottish clan tartans.

In the ancient Irish form of dress, the cloaks (brat) are thought to have been tartan. It is from these that the kilt eventually derived in Scotland. Of course, the sett meant nothing, but then that was also true in Scotland for a long time after that.

The meaning of the sett comes from the clan chief in Scotland, and also from being registered, even if it is, say, the German American tartan (I'm neither German nor American, that was just an example). It is, as Jock says, a sort of club colours, and the origins, although interesting, are secondary.