What would you like to see in a kilt?

[kc8ufv]

I don't think kilts have stopped evolving. The last 30 years (approximately one generation) have already shown a number of changes in material and design.

At this point though, there are A LOT of features to choose from. Look at the options menus from some of our sponsors. Between Keltoi, Freedom Kilts, and Alt.Kilts, one has most everything I was able to think of from traditional, to contemporary, to modern!

As people have already mentioned, heavier PV would be nice.

Is weaving the only way to create a tartan pattern? Could it conceivably be dyed or printed on to fabric?

I would like to see some form of kilt achieve enough mainstream acceptance that it could produce a different economy of scale. Like if my favourite work wear companies (Dickies and Carhartt) started mass producing a utility kilt. It would the same as their work pants: offered in tough materials, standard sizes, a few colours, and a very affordable price point.

I would think it could be printed. Considering how many flannel shirts I've seen where the plaid pattern on the outside is much much much more vibrant than on the inside, I can think of no other way than it being printed for that to have happened.... From a mass-production perspective, I would think this would make things less expensive....

[RockyR]

I would think it could be printed. Considering how many flannel shirts I've seen where the plaid pattern on the outside is much much much more vibrant than on the inside, I can think of no other way than it being printed for that to have happened.... From a mass-production perspective, I would think this would make things less expensive....

It would make it less expensive, but have you ever seen a kilts made from printed cloth? NOT very nice. I would hesitate to call it a kilt.

[kc8ufv]

It would make it less expensive, but have you ever seen a kilts made from printed cloth? NOT very nice. I would hesitate to call it a kilt.

I never said it would look good, simply possible. I fear seeing anything printed on something looser than T-shirt material or flanel...

(Low) Price
Quality
Service (speed)
Pick any 2.

[kc8ufv]

Now look what you've done!! Now you've made printed tartan kilts inevitable.

PS...service is not equivalent to speed.

I didn't mean to imply they are equivalent. I've seen that grouping many times, sometimes with service, others with speed.

[CRussell]

I personally think the most important thing that has to happen before kilts take off and really become living, evolving clothing is to remove the overlay of “ethnic costume” and to start seeing kilts as fashion. The best thing that could happen to the kilt, in my opinion, is for the kilt to get to the point that the average English speaker sees it as normal clothing and would wear a kilt with as little thought as a pair of pants. I think a few adjustments, partly in attitude, partly in material, need to occur for that to happen.

The first part of a reality where men wear kilts as part of everyday clothing involves each man having multiple kilts in a variety of colors/patterns and which, for everyday wear, are washable. I don’t own one, but I imagine a kilt made of cotton twill would be very nice. Machine washable, ironable, and as durable as a pair of Dockers. My issue with the current kilt marketplace is that by and large, kilts made from non-tartan material don’t look like kilts. I would like to see more kiltmakers offer kilts made of washable, non-synthetic materials that are constructed identically to traditional kilts.

Secondly, for kilts to mainstream, I think tartans need to become a part of the overall color scheme of an outfit, not either a cultural artifact, or one set of loud, eye-blinding colors out of many.

I will let the kiltmakers and others with more industry experience correct me, but I think a lot of guys are discovering kilts that either don’t have Scottish ancestry, or don’t identify with their Scottish ancestry very strongly. I myself have some Scottish blood (what European-American doesn’t?), but I identify much more strongly with my English ancestry and the culture and heritage it brings. However, I bought a kilt as a splurge and now I’m hooked. I doubt I’m the only man in this boat. Because of this, I think it would only help the kilt industry to get away from the “kilt as ethnic costume” to some degree. For instance, getting away from the idea of “clan tartans” and selling the colors and patterns of the kilt material as a matter of personal taste or current fashion. Also, increasing the variety found in tartans. Most traditional tartans honestly look the same to my eye. Lots of dark greens and blues, or bright reds and greens, or some variation thereon. Personally, I find 90% of the traditional tartans hideous. I would love to see some new ones, especially some simpler ones with fewer colors, using the sorts of colors you could find on modern clothing. Another example is having more kilt accessories that don’t have thistles or other overtly Scottish symbols on them, and doing away with some of the overly historical kilt accessories, like doublets and jabots. I think they look fantastic, don’t get me wrong. I think a Sherrifmuir doublet with castellated diced hose and court shoes looks stunning. However, it also looks like you stepped out of the 1700s, Kate & Leopold-style. Even just taking the epaulettes and strange cuffs and pocket flaps off kilt jackets and making them look like regular suit jackets goes a long way to making the kilt look to my eye more like everyday clothing.

Part of the “tartan as fashion” framework I’d like to see also involves a little more color matching. I know a lot of the guys on this forum believe that anything goes when you wear a kilt. Bright red and green kilt with checkered black and white hose and a blue and yellow tartan shirt or tie to top it off. Anyone who feels that way is certainly entitled to their opinion, and if it makes them happy, then good on them. I’m not trying to judge anyone’s sense of fashion. However, I think something like a nice green and brown checked kilt with a white shirt, lovat green jacket, and plain green tie, would look much less costumey, would be less loud, and would be more likely to be seen in your average joe’s closet.

That is what I would like to see in the kilt market, and wear I would like the kilt to go in the future.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Also, increasing the variety found in tartans. Most traditional tartans honestly look the same to my eye. Lots of dark greens and blues, or bright reds and greens, or some variation thereon. Personally, I find 90% of the traditional tartans hideous.

There are well over 8000 unique tartans on record with more being added on a weekly basis now it seems. The great majority of those are not "traditional clan tartans"

Now true, the woolen mills are not going to stock all of these. They are going to stock what sells the most. Introducing more fashion tartans won't change the economics of that.

One of the reasons why the mills will always stock the "traditional clan tartans" more than fashion tartans is because they know good and well that there will be a demand for MacGregor, MacDonald, and Stewart in 5, 10, or 50 years, just like there was 50 years ago. But the fashion tartan that is all the rage this year, might be played out in 5 years, so each time they reweave a new bolt of the cloth, they have to decide if they think the tartan is still popular enough. And that's also why new fashion tartans are designed on a regular basis.

Of course you are always free to design your own, which is easier now than it ever was before, thanks to online tartan design software.

I would love to see some new ones, especially some simpler ones with fewer colors, using the sorts of colors you could find on modern clothing.

I'm not quite sure I follow you, as you were just complaining that one reason you don't like traditional tartans is that they all seem to use the same basic colors. But now you are asking for fewer colors.

There are plenty of tartans out there that just use two or three colors, so perhaps it is that you are not familiar with all that is available. And actually, with jaquard looms, mills now can produce tartan cloth with one color!

And, speaking of variety in colors, keep in mind that the same tartan is often produced in multiple color schemes by the same mill, and that different mills' colors vary slightly from one to another. So with one tartan, I might have the choice between 6 or 7 different color options, all available from stock at various mills.

Another example is having more kilt accessories that don’t have thistles or other overtly Scottish symbols on them, and doing away with some of the overly historical kilt accessories, like doublets and jabots. I think they look fantastic, don’t get me wrong. I think a Sherrifmuir doublet with castellated diced hose and court shoes looks stunning. However, it also looks like you stepped out of the 1700s, Kate & Leopold-style. Even just taking the epaulettes and strange cuffs and pocket flaps off kilt jackets and making them look like regular suit jackets goes a long way to making the kilt look to my eye more like everyday clothing.

Why do we have to "do away" with these types of accessories (which you agree look fantastic) in order to allow simpler, more modern styles? Can we not have both as an option?

And in fact you can order a kilt jacket today with no epaulettes, plain cuffs, and plain pocket flaps. And it is certainly not necessary to wear kilt pins, buttons, badges, buckles, etc., with thistles and rampant lions emblazoned all over them. I certainly don't.

Part of the “tartan as fashion” framework I’d like to see also involves a little more color matching. I know a lot of the guys on this forum believe that anything goes when you wear a kilt. Bright red and green kilt with checkered black and white hose and a blue and yellow tartan shirt or tie to top it off. Anyone who feels that way is certainly entitled to their opinion, and if it makes them happy, then good on them. I’m not trying to judge anyone’s sense of fashion. However, I think something like a nice green and brown checked kilt with a white shirt, lovat green jacket, and plain green tie, would look much less costumey, would be less loud, and would be more likely to be seen in your average joe’s closet.

That is what I would like to see in the kilt market, and wear I would like the kilt to go in the future.

Well, you can wear a kilt outfit just like that now! What you described in the above paragraph sounds like a very nice outfit to me, and there is nothing mentioned that you could not find available today from any number of reputable Highland dress retailers.

[DWFII]

Why do we have to "do away" with these types of accessories (which you agree look fantastic) in order to allow simpler, more modern styles?

We have to do away with them for the same reason we have to "(re)-define Tradition...because they're too expensive; because they are not "unorthodox" or iconoclastic enough, not hip or outraged enough, not "modern" enough, not commonplace enough.

Well, you can wear a kilt outfit just like that now! What you described in the above paragraph sounds like a very nice outfit to me, and there is nothing mentioned that you could not find available today from any number of reputable Highland dress retailers.

Funny how that works isn't it? For all the protestations of modernity or "free thinking" independence there's a a remarkable "sameness" to it all.

[Java]

Post deleted - I managed to double post it.

[CMcG]

<snip>
...plus whatever on more 16oz PV tartans.

I believe that poly-viscose isn't yet available in that heavy of a weight. People who advertise "16oz poly-viscose" are usually selling poly-acetate... rather shady advertising if you ask me.

[Mael Coluim]

….snip…

???!! Are we Off Topic yet?

Let’s hope we are back on and the topic is………..

Have kilts stopped evolving? What features would you like to see in a kilt?
……….snip