De-Anglicisation of Names

[Mike1]

Slohairt, the intention of Cajunscot's post (immediately above your last) was to bring an end to the hard feelings that were brewing up and not to provide you the opportunity for 'one last shot'.

I recommend both you and Gilmore both head to your respective corners and give it a rest. Else this thread is headed for the bin.

[Belegnole]

Whatever discord may have appeared in this thread I would like to give my thanks for the assistance that has been offered.

Guess I'm from a Sept of Clan Ferguson

[Oldhiker]

Dia Dhuit, mo charaí!


Many Highland clans have names which have no basis in the Gaelic language. Gunn, MacLeod, and Lamont come to mind. In fact, their progenitors were Norse! Does this mean that they are not full-blown Gaelic clans? Of course, they are! To suggest otherwise would be to tell a Fitzgerald or a Burke that he is not Irish!

(Ap Rhisiart).

I was reading this old thread and thought I would throw in some info on the Clan Lamont orgins. The name sound does indicate the Clan might be of Norse descent. We have some DNA results that show the Clan Lamont is definately of Celtic origin more specifically from Dalridia Kingdom of Northern Ireland in about 1200 AD. I believe the first of Clan Lamont was Sir Laumon. His father was Macolm from the McNeil's of Barra and his mother is beleived to be a daughter of Somerled where his Norse sounding name must have had its origins. ( spelling versions I have seen Lawmont, Lawmon, Lammond)

As we all know Scotland had many invasions from different groups, The Celts from Ireland, The Norse, The Saxxons, etc etc

DNA testing can help show the ancient origins of the clans, Y DNA follows father to son with very little mutation for centuries which allows us to use it for genealogy.

If you have any questions on DNA testing, I would be glad to TRY to answer.

[creativeaccents]

Re the mention of the Walkers in post 56 in this thread, I found this interesting quote, "The Gaelic form MACNUCATOR derives from "Mac an fhucadair" (son of the fuller (of the cloth)), of which the old Scots equivalent is 'Waulker', derived from 'Walker', a middle English form which comes from the Old English 'wealcere'. The form 'Walker' is also found in England, Ireland and elsewhere, and although amongst the 30 most common names in Scotland, such ancestry should not be assumed without genealogical or geographical evidence. Many of todays Walkers were originally MacNucators, but as the name prospered in many parts of Scotland devoid of Highland association, and given the widespread distribution of the occupation, it seems most unlikely that many were related, other than by continuation of the tradition of that trade within their own family. Such trade names were not patronymics, but were used for the sake of distinction within the particular clan or community in which they dwelt. In 1613 - 14, persons of this name in Balquidder, Perthshire were fined for reset (sheltering) of members of the proscribed Clan Gregor. Some MacNucators followed the Stewarts of Appin in the Rising of 1745. Undoubtedly, many Walkers and MacNucators will be able to trace an ancestry to areas dominated by other clans, and if such association be established it is quite appropriate to adopt their tartans etc. As far as I can trace there are two tartans to which the name Walker can be associated. MacGregor Red & Stewart of Appin - this is a blue/green tartan."

[jordanjm]

How about Butler

[ardchoille]

How about MacGregor? I think the Gaelic is Grioghair.
Grioghair = Greg? Gregor?
MacGregor = Son of Gregor?

It's nice to learn a bit of history

[Ozman1944]

Mine is Harris (Welsh/Cornish) but also rendered as 'Harry' 'Perry', 'Parry'. ?

[MacWage]

Guys,
This thread is a tad old (Most activity ended in Mid-Dec. 2006). I haven't seen slohairt (the one doing the translation fun) around posting in a while, so he might not answer.

On a personal note: If he does, I'll be HAPPY to see him again! I miss his contributions around here.

[mddock58]

MacWage, He posted on the 8th of this month, but he seems to be much quieter than he used to be.

[slohairt]

Dia Dhuit, mo charaí!

After a bit of consideration I have decided to reply to these posts. (Possibly because the names are easy ones? )

For those gentle readers who have not read the earlier posts, I will clarify my intent. This thread is to provide the original Gaelic (Irish or Scottish) spelling of a particular Irish or Scottish name; hence the term "de-Anglicisation." For amusement sake, I also provide a translation or transliteration service for those names which are not based in Gaelic language/culture.

NOTE: This is NOT a Genealogy thread! Though some of the information may or may not prove useful to someone researching their family history, it should not be taken as an indication of someone's descent. People change names for many reasons and all may not be what it seems!

So, without further ado:

Butler: The Butlers, as any novice student of Irish history can tell you, were an important Norman-Irish family. Their name was Gaelicised as "de Buitléir (pronounced DE BWIT-LAIR). The term "butler" in those day meant something more akin to "steward."

MacGregor: "son of Gregory" Scottish: Mac Grioghair (pronounced MAC GRIG-ER or MAC GREER) or Irish: Mac Gréagóir (pronounced MAC GRAYG-ORE)

Harris: Anglicisation of Welsh "Ap Harri" meaning "son of Henry" Ap (earlier Map) corresponds to Gaelic "mac."