Kilts and costumes

**ChromeScholar** · 4th October 07, 03:40 PM

To me, costume/clothing is a matter of intent, not a matter of nationality.

Time to go get a whisky, I guess...

**Mike1** · 4th October 07, 04:33 PM

Is this going to end up being another thread that gets locked down, simply because people cannot respect the opinions of others? There have been a couple of gentle warnings and they seem to be going ignored.

How about everyone walking away from this one for a while? Take a walk. Read a book. Eat some ice cream. And come to the realization that this isn't life or death, this is a forum built up around an article of clothing.

Press on with the arguments and away it goes.

**Archangel** · 4th October 07, 07:32 PM

I want to thank Riverkilt for that quote. That's the translation of my family name "the place where the warriors put down their weapons and have a truce".

I would appreciate knowing the full name and quote if you have it.

And, relating to the thread, umm, I'll let it pass for now....it's clothing, not a religion.

**emolas** · 4th October 07, 07:51 PM

Well, I will be wearing a kilt on Halloween this year but the only costume I will be wearing is "father who wears a kilt every day" while I escort my children around since I wear kilts exclusively when not at work. If I were to wear a costume and the costume itself did not dictate what to drape around my lower half then I would wear a kilt because that is my normal clothing. By strict definition, ALL clothing is a costume.

cos·tume (kŏs'tūm', -tyūm')
n.
1. A style of dress, including garments, accessories, and hairstyle, especially as characteristic of a particular country, period, or people.

2. An outfit or a disguise worn on Mardi Gras, Halloween, or similar occasions.

3. A set of clothes appropriate for a particular occasion or season.

**Howard Clark** · 5th October 07, 06:51 AM

I really do think it is a matter of point of view. I've noticed that many of us who see no problem are americans, and some of those who do see a problem are Scots, for real, who live in Scotland today. Certainly that constitutes a different point of view.

I think we (americans) would do well to consider other people's point of view more often. As individuals, and as a people. I do not find it surprising in the least that many others around the planet are confused and irritated by our behaviour at times. We (those of us here at Xmarks) have the opportunity to do better. This is truly an international board, and I am thankful for that.

**Bryan** · 5th October 07, 02:56 PM

I think we (americans) would do well to consider other people's point of view more often. As individuals, and as a people.

What I'm about to say is in no way intended to offend anyone or devolve this into a cultural war, but hang on a second. We are all here to give our opinions and take part in friendly discussions such as what happens on the boards here. If you disagree with what I'm saying, fine by me, you have the right, but please don't play the "all Americans are insensitive to the opinions of others" bit.

On to the discussion at hand. People should feel free to wear whatever they like to a costume driven event is all I'm saying, as long as it is tasteful. Remember when Steve Irwin was killed last year by that stingray? Bill Maher, whom I thought was a moron beforehand, went as the Crocodile Hunter with the stingray barb in his chest to a Halloween party a month later. I would certainly hope that everyone of us gathered here thinks that is in poor taste. A man wearing a kilt to a costume ball or Halloween party certainly is not.

**Archangel** · 5th October 07, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bryan

What I'm about to say is in no way intended to offend anyone or devolve this into a cultural war, but hang on a second. We are all here to give our opinions and take part in friendly discussions such as what happens on the boards here. If you disagree with what I'm saying, fine by me, you have the right, but please don't play the "all Americans are insensitive to the opinions of others" bit.

umm, you're kind of supporting the other position here. I shall say no more or the thread would be locked. (BTW, I'm heading for a family reunion in Connecticut next week, and will be renewing friendship with many 'Mercans that I haven't seen for years. If I get across the border...)

Actually, something the Scots might not be aware of is the practice of Halloween in North America. It is a bigger event than Christmas in some areas. More often than not, it at least matches Christmas. Halloween is promoted strongly starting around September 1.
It has become as much an adult event, again, sometimes more so, than the children's event.
In my recollection of Halloween in Scotland there is no comparison. Perhaps, if I magnify the Guy Fawkes night, I can get close.

**Bryan** · 5th October 07, 07:37 PM

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, but you're right about the Halloween thing. Maybe people in Europe and other parts of the world don't realize how big Halloween is here. Halloween is HUGE.

It's sort of like the St. Patrick's Day celebrations here. We do St. Patty's up big, but I think Americans (and our Canadian cousins up north if I'm not mistaken) are really the only ones who do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but St. Patty's, like the majority of our Halloween traditions for that matter, come from the Emerald Isle, but it isn't much celebrated there, is it?

**Archangel** · 5th October 07, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bryan

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, but you're right about the Halloween thing. Maybe people in Europe and other parts of the world don't realize how big Halloween is here. Halloween is HUGE.

It's sort of like the St. Patrick's Day celebrations here. We do St. Patty's up big, but I think Americans (and our Canadian cousins up north if I'm not mistaken) are really the only ones who do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but St. Patty's, like the majority of our Halloween traditions for that matter, come from the Emerald Isle, but it isn't much celebrated there, is it?

Oh, I fully understand what you're saying but let's go to another field.

My understanding is that St. Patrick's Day parade is completely a New York invention. From there, it went across the US and into Canada. It's not as big in Canada but still a major event. There is some discussion to making an actual holiday since there isn't a spring one. Apparently, it's also getting to be a big event in Japan.
After it was well established in NA, then it became an event in Ireland. It's primarily tourist bait there. Tourists expect one so the Irish supplied one.

Not sure about your reference to Halloween as an Irish tradition. That seems to have come out of New England and built up from various European traditions. I think the main source would be resulting from stories of witch hysteria in Scotland and England in the 1700s.

**escherblacksmith** · 5th October 07, 08:25 AM

Heh.

well, just trying to get in before the lock . . .

I had a number of statements, arguments, rationale and so on. But in re-thinking about the posts so far, realistically, logic has very little to do with it. So, everyone have a safe Samhain's night and Halloween, I will be in a suit as a costume to work ("hit man" or "long haired guy with interview").

Amusingly enough, everyone has seen my kilt(s) far more than my suit.