"But I Don't Have Enough Money!"

[Scotus]

The box pleated kilt, as well as, double box, are a topic with threads in the Traditional kilt sub-forum, so I feel no guilt in bringing them up here.

I agree. We're on the same page here.

[TheKiltedWonder]

No, but I was thinking in my naiveté that people might respect the title of the sub-forum, otherwise, why have it.



There are lots and lots of statements I disagree with in the Contemporary & Non-Traditional Kilts sub-forum, but I make no comment, as that is the place to talk about those topics. If I posted about every statement I disagreed with in that sub-forum, I do nothing but type messages there all day long.

Disrespecting the sub-forum title? I don't think it's any crime to mention a non-traditional kilt in a traditional kilt sub-forum. Perhaps I'm a bit too much of a Hegelian, but I don't see how you could have a meaningful discussion on this topic without reference to non-traditional kilts -- as if traditional kilts exist in a vacuum.

Clearly non-traditional kilts can have a strong influence on someone who would like to buy a traditional kilt, but doesn't have the money for one at the moment. They might be tempted to buy a more-inexpensive (and less-traditional) kilt, rather than save up for a hand-sewn one -- as has been suggested. If you want to point out that they could save up for the traditional kilt if they make that their priority that's grand. I would agree, as I've stated before. But what's the harm in discussing the relative merits and disadvantages (in a respectful way) of both traditional kilts and the utilikilts you mentioned?

Perhaps this isn't the place to go into detail about the new Utilikilt. Actually, subtract the "perhaps" -- it isn't. But that doesn't mean they don't warrant a mention. Then when Jock McScot is reading the thread and debating whether or not he wants to prioritize saving up for that tank, he'll be able to read a nice, well-thought out discussion on the very issues floating about his mind. "Yes, that's true; while casual kilts are great for a bar, would I feel comfortable wearing one in a more formal setting?" "Hrm, this is more inexpensive, but I can pass it down through the generations!" Or perhaps he decides that it's just not for him. Either way, he's no longer "unable" to buy a tank; he's saving up, or he's realized it's not his top priority.

[DWFII]

I don't think it's any crime to mention a non-traditional kilt in a traditional kilt sub-forum.

A crime?...certainly not! I said much the same thing when I related the "compared to what" story.

But it is one thing to mention--to establish a baseline--and very certainly another thing altogether to deliberately ignore the sensibilities of those who want to discuss, or make inquires about a particular subject...starting from a particular set of assumptions that don't have to be thrashed out all over again, time after time.

[Howard Clark]

Well I would have saved myself hundreds of dollars and many, many hours of time if I had just heeded the original advice, and saved up for a good kilt in the first place.

That is not what I did. I bought two "starter kilts" in acrylic, because they were affordable. Not knowing any better (it was before I found XMTS), I then moved on to trying to make one of better materials, but used the inexpensive acrylic as a model. Bad plan. Wasted several yards of really decent wool fabric (though no "real" tartan) making kilts to fit me in decent materials, but based on a very flawed model of how they should be made.

Then I found this place, and decided that I could afford to get one from Matt, and ordered what I thought at the time would be my one and only hand sewn kilt (how naive THAT was). I now have three of Matt's four yard box pleated kilts, two by Barb T and two from ChattanCat. I love them all.

Had I saved up for one "tank" (that still bugs me a little bit, though I DO understand why it was started, and sticks) and got that first, I maybe could have stopped at one, especially if it was the quality of those made by the folks that are here and participate regularly that I already mentioned, and Rocky as well. I am sure his work is first class also, though I have yet to get one myself.

I think the original post was good advice, and it would have saved me a lot of money and time had I heard it before I started down the kilt path.

I wouldn't have learned as much, but that is another thing entirely.

[Laird O'the Cowcaddens]

If only want to drive a Rolls Royce, save yer pennies and wait till you can afford a good used one and drive it till you can buy a new one. If you want to drive right now, buy the best you can get for what you have and keep it running until you can buy the one you want. Kilts or Cars, every man has their fancies.

[Scotus]

Perhaps this isn't the place to go into detail about the new Utilikilt.

Correct.

[JelicoCat]

Having read thru all the replies again I still disagree with the spirit and intent of the original post as well as the letter of it. The kilt to me is not just something to be worn when getting dressed up, rather it is garment worn because of its characteristics and flexibilty. The kilt was originally and should be something that I can wear as often as possible.

Don't get me wrong. When dressing up with a kilt I look to the traditionalist on this forum for guidence and advice, but to make a public statement that implies that a certain percentage of people on this site are making false excuses with out knowing each individuals situation is insulting. When some one feels insulted he/she will react accordingly (myself included).

I will do my best to remember that this is a public forum and temper my reactions and words with more thought. I hope that I am not the only one.

[davedove]

1) Where would I wear such a thing? I have no plans to attend a Burns supper or other traditional Scottish dinner any time soon (i.e. probably never), not least because I'm not Scottish (although I am ethnically Irish).

I can't argue with your other points, but I must comment on this one. You can wear a traditional kilt practically anywhere. You don't have to save it for your best occasions (though you can if you wish).

I have worn THE SAME KILT for everything from formal night on a cruise, to a fancy new year's eve dance, to the office, and to a beer festival and Hooters. It's all in the accesories.

[Scotus]

... I must comment on this one. You can wear a traditional kilt practically anywhere. You don't have to save it for your best occasions (though you can if you wish).

I have worn THE SAME KILT for everything... It's all in the accesories.

Exactly. Excellent points.

[Panache]

I truly believe that there is a very good premise to the original post.

That premise is simply that a traditionally made kilt is made of better materials, with better workmanship, that will offer a better / more flattering fit, that will last longer, and look better than a mass produced kilt.

Taking these factors into account a traditional kilt offers an outstanding value.

People will note the richer colors and wonderful workmanship in comparison to mass produced kilts. Its a subtle thing, but it is there.

Yes for the same price as one traditional kilt one can purchase 4-5 acrylic ones.

In the long run how will these last?

Will you ever look quite as good in any one of these as you will in your bespoke kilt of the highest quality wool tartan?

A good quality kilt is a lifetime investment .

It can be passed from generation to generation.

They also offer some qualities that a mass produced one cannot.

The sense that one is supporting the mills that have been making tartans for decades.

The sense that one is supporting the traditional art of kilt making and keeping that art alive

The sense that one is wearing a bespoke garment designed to make the wearer look their very best

The sense that the tartan worn is something meaningful / attractive to the wearer (and that tartan was the one the wearer chose from all possible tartans available instead of limited selection of standard ones)

Those factors might not be readily noticeable to others, but they make the experience of owning and wearing your kilt far richer.

I think that Scotus was wrong to bring Utilikilts into the equation, they don't have anything to do with traditional highland dress. Because they were brought in at the start they have been a factor in this dialogue.

But he does have a very valid point that for those who wish to wear the kilt out of a sense of Scottish heritage, one is best served to wait and save for a traditionally made kilt.

It is worth it!

Cheers

Jamie