over doing the bling?

[Urchurdan]

Oh aye, your right Jock, they haven't got trooser legs to roll up, so they whip the kilt round the wrong way - well spotted....

[macwilkin]

Perhaps its one of those
Masonic things that we don't know about, one can't help but smile though.

The chaps in question are members of the "Knights of St. Andrew", a service organisation associated with the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite - Southern Jurisdiction (AASR) here in the states. Chapters may be found at a number of AASR "Valleys" throughout the Southern Jurisdiction, and the organisation is based on the 29th Degree of Pike's Scottish Rite Degrees, which makes reference to Robert the Bruce & the legend of the Templars at Bannockburn.

Many of the groups have little to no experience with Highland attire, and so the choice of "uniform" can be quite...interesting.

T.

[McClef]

There used to be an ad on UK TV that carried the slogan "Watch out! Watch out! There's a Humphrey about!"

Was it for milk?

Or was it about what Jock thinks Humphrey is about...

[JSFMACLJR]

Time to add my thoughts on this very interesting topic! Thanks for starting it, Jock.

I usually get invited to quite a few black tie events every year, as well as a handful of balls that are white tie. For quite a few of the black tie suppers, and parties and whatnot, I usually wear a dinner jacket and waistcoat. If my trews fit, I would wear them to some of these gatherings.

To some of the black tie events I will wear the kilt. I almost always wear buckled shoes. I have two pairs; the well-known "Mary Jane" style, and a court shoe with a single buckle. I prefer the latter. I believe there is a "proper" shoe for all events. With a dinner jacket I usually wear evening pumps withbows; sometimes a very highly polished oxford; sometimes a Gucci loafer; sometimes a black suede Belgian shoe. The buckled shoes to me are the perfect shoe to wear with the kilt, I guess because I have always seen them worn and have been around men wearing them all my life, They just seem to "work." Are they a bit of bling? Well, depends who's defining bling! I just see buckled shoes with the kilt in the evening as being the "standard."

Here is what I wear with the kilt to black tie functions:
1. navy blue velvet doublet with scarlet facings. Silver crested buttons. Tartan waistcoat--or no waistcoat even. Diced, or tartan hose or solid colour hose. Either an otter mask sporran or goat hair sporran.

For more "informal" black tie kilted functions I will wear solid coloured hose. I like red in a number of shades. If the event is a little more elegant, I wear diced. Or not. It just depends on my mood. Same with the sporran. Now, there is no denying the fact that my goat hair sporran is a bit of "bling"! Nonetheless, it is "traditional" and I love it. It means a great deal to me. I don't always wear it, but I find I do most of the time now.

To some eyes, when I am dressed like this I certainly stand apart from the crowd, there is no getting around that. This is the way several generations of my family have dressed when wearing the kilt in the evening. I'm comfortable in it, and it looks good. I don't wear a dirk, belt, or plaid. My sgian dubh is subdued. I might wear a pocket watch.

2. For some family events, and some Scottish society functions here in the US, I oftentimes wear a tartan doublet. Same sporran choices, Same hose (although I tend to prefer solid). Bling? Well, it ain't black! Wrong? Absolutely not. Eccentric? Certainly! Traditional? Very much so. Appropriate for all black tie events? NO!!!

Now white tie. Pretty much the same. I might wear a jabot ( pretty standard fare for those from the Western Isles ). I might wear a winged collar (detachable, of course ). My hose will be diced. I have a number of waistcoat options. I wear the goat hair sporran. What differentiates my white tie from black tie rig is that the former will always have a waistcoat, always have diced hose, and my shirt will be different.

All of this is pretty flashy, and one would not readily use the adjective "subdued" to describe it. It might not be your cup of tea ( not even yours, Jock!!! ) but that's what I do. I have been to a number of balls in Scotland. I've never appeared overdressed. To my knowledge I've never had anyone think I was over-the-top. I have been dressed like most of the other gentlemen in my circle of friends. I could choose to wear a dirk, but don't. For me it is a bit much. I never wear a plaid, nor do any of my Scottish friends ( let me rephrase that: none of my Scottish friends wear plaids to any of the "nice" balls, which I would consider to be the Oban, Skye, Perth, Lochaber, Northern Meeting, Royal Caledonian and a few others ). That would be bling!

So Jock, we differ slightly here, my friend, but the bottom line is we wear what we want and what we are comfortable wearing.

[Jordan]

Here's my take on hose:

if the invitation says---

"Black Tie, medals" I wear diced hose;

"Black Tie, Highland attire preferred" I wear tartan hose;

if it's a black tie "gentlemen only" affair I wear coloured hose.

In other words I look at the formality of the black tie event and dress up (or down) accordingly.

Now I should point out that with the exception of white socks, there is no right or wrong with wearing either diced, tartan, or solid hose with black tie; it's all a matter of personal preference in much the same vein as choosing between a doublet, coatee, or jacket for formal evening wear.

I agree 100% with Jock that "less is better"-- too many accessories can quickly impart a comic opera look to Highland attire.

Im curious, how many people here have had an Invitation which specified Black tie with medals etc Like MoR's post?

It seems I have the wrong group of friends

[macwilkin]

Im curious, how many people here have had an Invitation which specified Black tie with medals etc Like MoR's post?

It seems I have the wrong group of friends

2-3 times a year.

T.

[Jock Scot]

Its not for me to like or dislike Sandy, they are your outfits after all. In fact I did think of the far western outposts around Oban and their penchant for rather more "adventurous" outfits, but I tried not to complicate things! Actually, whilst I prefer the rather less "adventurous" dress attire myself,the outfits that you describe and wear are absolutely traditional and given another life I could go down the route that you have.

[Jock Scot]

Im curious, how many people here have had an Invitation which specified Black tie with medals etc Like MoR's post?

It seems I have the wrong group of friends

Even though I don't go to these events any more, I probably still get 10/15 invitations like that a year.

[MacLowlife]

Nearly 100 posts in 37 hours!

Who says nobody is interested in Black Tie?

I think the real message here is just how varied the social lives of X Markers are. When I was a lad, between cleaning and sweeping and polishing, I went to a lot of weddings. Down here on the wrong side of the tracks, it is more or less assumed that a wedding after 6 ( or even AT 6) will be attended in black tie and plenty of my friends are equipped to do just that. And, if the wedding is between Memorial Day and Labor Day, many of those friends can pop out a white jacket. On the other hand, the people I work with do not think or act like that. They might go to weddings, but they may well be a very different kind of event and most of the guests aren't expecting or expected to wear black tie.

Oh, yeah, and in this dark corner of civilization where I live, people still have debutante balls. OK, not the manager at the grocery store or the guy who delivers the bread, but the doctors and the lawyers and some of their friends. In a town of a hundred thousand or so, that would be a couple of hundred people. There are a lot of such towns.

OK, so in Scotland, there are people who deliver bread, too, and doctors and lawyers, and there are people with actual titles, unlike the pretend titles some of my neighbors might have. The gent who delivers bread may well have an elegant and dressy wedding for his lovely daughter and the titled folk might be the kind who seldom wear socks and like ferns in their hair. Or, as many people in the US fondly wish, there are kindly and aristocratic people putting on the soup and fish several times a week all over the UK, whose merry lives would be perfect and complete if they just had a couple from California or Utah ( or South Carolina, please please please) to come and discuss genealogy.

I do believe that American and British people used to dress up much more than they do now. But I fear that people in the movies dressed up a lot more than anyone else.

And the people in the movies ( having costume designers and wardrobe techs to help them) always do the thing whole hog. While the people who do actually dress up regularly enough to own their own dressy outfits tend to be a little more blase' about it.

Now, there is one more important thing to bear in mind. There is still a certain type of black tie party that really does mean black tie- where nobody would dream of going so wild as to wear a cummerbund, much less a tie, that wasn't actually black- where a guy in a black tie with white dots/spots on it is considered a bohemian rebel. And when the people who go to those parties wear WHITE tie, the only variation from man to man is in the degree of age and starch in the outfits- and, of course, the diff between the people who come every year and the poor souls who are here for the first time- wearing the rental stuff.

I apologize if this seems OT or snobbish, or both, but I am trying to point out that (Saxon) white tie is as cookie cutter as you can get, while Scots white tie is anything but.

This discussion might go one step further- and talk about the seeming backlash tendency among many of our brethren against the casualization, that is, the great tendency to get and wear PC doublets and the like. So, while the greater part of society is wearing flip flops, some of us are up to our necks in bling.

I have gone on long enough, but remember, I read 90-odd posts at one sitting.

[Cygnus]

...

To some eyes, when I am dressed like this I certainly stand apart from the crowd, there is no getting around that. This is the way several generations of my family have dressed when wearing the kilt in the evening. I'm comfortable in it, and it looks good. I don't wear a dirk, belt, or plaid. My sgian dubh is subdued. I might wear a pocket watch.

...

Sandy, you are a man after my own heart! Thank you for posting your take on things - I agree with you on all counts and like my (minor?) eccentricities to be apparent in my clothing choices!

...
This discussion might go one step further- and talk about the seeming backlash tendency among many of our brethren against the casualization, that is, the great tendency to get and wear PC doublets and the like. So, while the greater part of society is wearing flip flops, some of us are up to our necks in bling.

I have gone on long enough, but remember, I read 90-odd posts at one sitting.

I think my tendency to like the flashier (but acceptable) elements of Highland dress stem from my time as an orchestral musician during my school years. I own the cookie-cutter white tie outfit and remember craving something that would make me feel original in the crowd of identically-clad men.

I do accept that there are occasions that merit the uniform of "lowland" white tie and tails, and I appreciate the reason for it (not to detract from the ball gowns and accessories of the women in attendance); but I love variation and the ability to express myself, even if it is within the limits of what is acceptable for Highland dress!