Boy Scout kilts

[Kilt-alope]

Logically, the absence of proof is not the proof of absence. just because we can't find a photo, does not mean it does not exist. But regardless of if BP wore a kilt or not, if a kilt is not part of the uniform, it's not part of the uniform. BP wore military dress uniforms, but parts of those uniforms are not supposed to be mixed with the Scout uniform.

When I wear a kilt with my scout uniform it is to go with the theme of the event, honestly more of a costume than a uniform (notice my avatar, playing camp golf). I would like kilts to be an option for the Scout uniform but it's not right now. Until it is, I'll save my kilt for events where it fits the theme. Surprisingly often when I'm one of the people planning the events and picking the theme, lol

[Chas]

I read the entire thread as you suggested - undoubtedly the founder of the Boy Scouts went kilted on occasion. There may not be many photos to prove it but there are a few, certainly.

There's provision in the Scout dress regulations in both Scotland and Australia for kilts - none in Canada to my knowledge, which would be a PR problem for Scouts Canada should someone make an issue of it.

Like all Scout organizations though, they have bigger fish to fry.

Undoubtedly, he did not wear a kilt on any occasion. There are no photographs to prove it. First you say there are many photographs; now you are saying that there may not be many. The truth is, it is no more than wishful thinking on your part.

You are not doing B-P's memory any service by claiming something that never happened. As much as we all wish it, we cannot change history, just to suit own own private desires.

There are provisions for wearing a kilt under the UK Scouting regulations, but that has nothing to do with what B-P wore. Some British scouts may wear a turban. Does that mean that B-P was a Sikh? Of course not! Don't mix the two up.

If you, or anyone else, wants to change the uniform regulations in your country, then start agitating and campaigning for a change, but don't try and change history to suit your ends.

Here is your challenge then: produce the pictures that you say exist. No one has found one in the 70 years since he died, but you say you know different. Prove it!

Regards

Chas

[Downunder Kilt]

There's provision in the Scout dress regulations in both Scotland and Australia for kilts

Just spoke with Scouting Australia, they have no regulations covering kilt wearing. If you have other information I'll stand corrected

[macwilkin]

Terry, while I had not heard of the proposal for a British Sikh regiment, it does make sense. There are, after all, still Gurkha regiments in the British Army (for all that they were originally raised under the Raj), besides the Gurkha/Gorkha units of the Indian and Pakistani armies. (Do they even serve Nepal any more?)
British folk might have reservations about Sikhs fighting for Queen and country, but I would far rather see Sikh militancy being expressed by means of an infantry regiment under the Crown than on the streets of England and Scotland.
Regards,
Mike

There are also Gurkhas seconded to the Sultan of Brunei and Singapore. I'm not sure of their status with Nepal following the change of regime.

The author of the novel The Sand Pebbles, Richard McKenna, had a number of references to Sikh policemen in the treaty ports of China during the late 1920s. At least one is seen in the opening shots of the movie with Steve McQueen.

T.

[Kilt-alope]

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Logic 1101. But if BP did or did not wear a kilt does not have a significant effect on it being uniform for Scouts.

[macwilkin]

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Logic 1101. But if BP did or did not wear a kilt does not have a significant effect on it being uniform for Scouts.

Again, try using that line with a PhD or MA committee. It may be "Logic 101", but it doesn't necessarily fly when presenting research. I was taught at university that if you can't cite a source, you don't present it as fact.

T.

[Kilt-alope]

I'm not trying to quote anyone, a statement of logic needs a much citation as a mathematical occurrence. 2+2=4, no matter who said it first. I may have been overly simplifying my statement that it is more difficult to disprove an event then stating that you have no evidence that it occurred. This is an internet forum, not a PhD committee. Would you like me to continue my explanation with examples?

[macwilkin]

I'm not trying to quote anyone, a statement of logic needs a much citation as a mathematical occurrence. 2+2=4, no matter who said it first. I may have been overly simplifying my statement that it is more difficult to disprove an event then stating that you have no evidence that it occurred. This is an internet forum, not a PhD committee. Would you like me to continue my explanation with examples?

Yes, it is an Internet forum, but when dealing with historical topics, I was trained to cite my sources. As an educator and a librarian, I am obliged to so, regardless of the venue.

T.

[Mike_Oettle]

Let’s stop arguing about whether Baden-Powell wore a kilt. This is really flogging a dead horse. From where I’m looking at the evidence, he never did.
But that is not what this thread is about. Is the kilt suitable in Scouting? Most certainly.
Was it worn in the early days of Scouting? Yes.
There is the fact that kilts are not always easily obtainable, and that it would be unreasonable to expect boys (in certain troops) to acquire them.
But this argument does seem to be trotted out in cases where this circumstance does not apply.
Trouser-obsessed people on executive bodies who have their own hang-ups about kilt-wearing use these hang-ups, combined with the poverty argument, to beat down any and all reasonable applications from Scouts and Scouters who wish to wear the kilt.
I say trouser-obsessed – there is the factor that khaki shorts were the original Scout uniform, and were usually worn by B-P.
I certainly wore khaki shorts as a Scout.
But there seems to be a trend against wearing shorts, dictated by fashion.
Whether the objections to the kilt have any bearing on the shorts issue is not, I feel, a relevant aspect.
Regards,
Mike

[Kilted Jeeper]

can anyone provide documentation of BSA's "offical" position on the kilt? I have read through this entire thread but that was one piece I did not see.

Thanks