Kilts and costumes

[Sean_the_Kilted]

Lots of ideas going back and forth. My opinion is that the kilt is a piece of clothing and hence since almost any piece of clothing can be used in some way as a costume, if you want to use it as part of a costume, go for it. I realize that its a part of military uniforms and that men have fought and died over and in them. As an active duty US solider, I see people wear camoflague and/or old uniforms parts all the time who aren't in the military. Often times the uniform parts are worn incorrectly or faded and ripped. Do I get mad? No, its a free country and 99.9% of the people that are wearing it are doing so cause they like it and/or its comfortable, not as a sign of disrespect. If they want to be a solider for Halloween, I have no issues with it. I know I was one as a kid at least once. The kilt is the same way. The people who wear it as a costume aren't wearing it as a disrespect or protest. Dressing as a Scotsman or a Highlander is a perfectly legitimate costume, just as dressing like a German, or an Indian or an Eskimo is as well. As far as getting upset over someone wearing the kilt as a costume, get over it. Its their kilt and there are no laws regarding the wearing of a kilt last I checked. As a kilt wearing member of this forum, I would prefer that they wear it correctly and with respect, but if not, there isn't anything I can do about it. There are much more important things to worry about than people dressing up for a bit of fun. With that said, I think its time for some whiskey. Anyone want some?

[Bryan]

I think we (americans) would do well to consider other people's point of view more often. As individuals, and as a people.

What I'm about to say is in no way intended to offend anyone or devolve this into a cultural war, but hang on a second. We are all here to give our opinions and take part in friendly discussions such as what happens on the boards here. If you disagree with what I'm saying, fine by me, you have the right, but please don't play the "all Americans are insensitive to the opinions of others" bit.

On to the discussion at hand. People should feel free to wear whatever they like to a costume driven event is all I'm saying, as long as it is tasteful. Remember when Steve Irwin was killed last year by that stingray? Bill Maher, whom I thought was a moron beforehand, went as the Crocodile Hunter with the stingray barb in his chest to a Halloween party a month later. I would certainly hope that everyone of us gathered here thinks that is in poor taste. A man wearing a kilt to a costume ball or Halloween party certainly is not.

[Bryan]

With that said, I think its time for some whiskey. Anyone want some?

me me me!!!!!

[Archangel]

What I'm about to say is in no way intended to offend anyone or devolve this into a cultural war, but hang on a second. We are all here to give our opinions and take part in friendly discussions such as what happens on the boards here. If you disagree with what I'm saying, fine by me, you have the right, but please don't play the "all Americans are insensitive to the opinions of others" bit.

umm, you're kind of supporting the other position here. I shall say no more or the thread would be locked. (BTW, I'm heading for a family reunion in Connecticut next week, and will be renewing friendship with many 'Mercans that I haven't seen for years. If I get across the border...)

Actually, something the Scots might not be aware of is the practice of Halloween in North America. It is a bigger event than Christmas in some areas. More often than not, it at least matches Christmas. Halloween is promoted strongly starting around September 1.
It has become as much an adult event, again, sometimes more so, than the children's event.
In my recollection of Halloween in Scotland there is no comparison. Perhaps, if I magnify the Guy Fawkes night, I can get close.

[Bryan]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, but you're right about the Halloween thing. Maybe people in Europe and other parts of the world don't realize how big Halloween is here. Halloween is HUGE.

It's sort of like the St. Patrick's Day celebrations here. We do St. Patty's up big, but I think Americans (and our Canadian cousins up north if I'm not mistaken) are really the only ones who do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but St. Patty's, like the majority of our Halloween traditions for that matter, come from the Emerald Isle, but it isn't much celebrated there, is it?

[Archangel]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, but you're right about the Halloween thing. Maybe people in Europe and other parts of the world don't realize how big Halloween is here. Halloween is HUGE.

It's sort of like the St. Patrick's Day celebrations here. We do St. Patty's up big, but I think Americans (and our Canadian cousins up north if I'm not mistaken) are really the only ones who do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but St. Patty's, like the majority of our Halloween traditions for that matter, come from the Emerald Isle, but it isn't much celebrated there, is it?

Oh, I fully understand what you're saying but let's go to another field.

My understanding is that St. Patrick's Day parade is completely a New York invention. From there, it went across the US and into Canada. It's not as big in Canada but still a major event. There is some discussion to making an actual holiday since there isn't a spring one. Apparently, it's also getting to be a big event in Japan.
After it was well established in NA, then it became an event in Ireland. It's primarily tourist bait there. Tourists expect one so the Irish supplied one.

Not sure about your reference to Halloween as an Irish tradition. That seems to have come out of New England and built up from various European traditions. I think the main source would be resulting from stories of witch hysteria in Scotland and England in the 1700s.

[Bryan]

Oh, I fully understand what you're saying...

Obviously not.

Not sure about your reference to Halloween as an Irish tradition. That seems to have come out of New England and built up from various European traditions. I think the main source would be resulting from stories of witch hysteria in Scotland and England in the 1700s.

Not New England:

Halloween , Oct. 31, the eve of All Saints' Day , observed with traditional games and customs. The word comes from medieval England's All Hallows' eve (Old Eng. hallow = "saint" ). However, many of these customs predate Christianity, going back to Celtic practices associated with Nov. 1, which was Samhain , the beginning of winter and the Celtic new year. Witches and other evil spirits were believed to roam the earth on this evening, playing tricks on human beings to mark the season of diminishing sunlight. Bonfires were lit, offerings were made of dainty foods and sweets, and people would disguise themselves as one of the roaming spirits, to avoid demonic persecution. Survivals of these early practices can be found in countries of Celtic influence today, such as the United States where children go from door to door in costumes demanding "trick or treat."

[Nick the DSM]

i say if the guy is wearing the kilt as a costume with pride and not as a joke or stabs at a true kilted man, let him wear it!

[Archangel]

Not New England:

Halloween , Oct. 31, the eve of All Saints' Day , observed with traditional games and customs. The word comes from medieval England's All Hallows' eve (Old Eng. hallow = "saint" ). However, many of these customs predate Christianity, going back to Celtic practices associated with Nov. 1, which was Samhain , the beginning of winter and the Celtic new year. Witches and other evil spirits were believed to roam the earth on this evening, playing tricks on human beings to mark the season of diminishing sunlight. Bonfires were lit, offerings were made of dainty foods and sweets, and people would disguise themselves as one of the roaming spirits, to avoid demonic persecution. Survivals of these early practices can be found in countries of Celtic influence today, such as the United States where children go from door to door in costumes demanding "trick or treat."

I'm leaving your first subject alone.

Your next subject is the long version of what I said. The modern American Halloween grew out of....

BTW, I remember in Scotland, there was an expectation to have a trick prepared. It would be college age people doing the rounds not kids.

[Larry124]

I’m attending a camp-out three-day house party that is a combination Bluegrass Music Jam and Halloween Party.
My planned compromise is to wear a tartan kilt on Friday -- the non-Halloween party day.
Likely the Black Watch. Bill Monroe was the “Father of Bluegrass”. The Clan Munro Hunting tartan is “Black Watch” yes?

Then on the Halloween Party night I’ll wear an AK with otherwise ordinary clothing. I don’t think that anyone will mistake that for a costume.

Although as plan B I’m tempted to wear a Hawaiian type kilt with a Tiki pin and call myself “Clan Tiki Bar”.

Or might the “Tiki” idea be offensive to Pacific Islanders? Sheese, what a world we live in…