kilts in Scotland

[belsen]

i just want to say me view on the "what makes a scot" discussion. i think heritage pride and root seeking pride is a lode of rubbish. in the modern world there are not alot of cultural differences unless they r baced on religion or if u dig deep especially rich countries.

i think that people within alot of societies in "the new world" and even other places. that search there roots and create pride from it are escaping from the boring culture around them and want to identify them selfs as something els. its the same with sub-culters of today people become punk, goth, scene kid, rude boy. cuz they r bored of modern society.

i ware a kilt not with pride not with respect but also not with ignorance i just wear a kilt cuz it fits in with MY culture and my interest in celtic culture

i think that national culture is dieing its turning into religious culture, class culture and sub-cultures. i mean for example take a look at the streets of scotland i bet if u were shown a pic of people doing day to day business with no clue of where it was show it to 100 diff people i doubt hardly any one could say it is scotland and they are Scottish people if i went back in time 100 or 200 years and did the same thing it would be opposite results. im not just picking on scotland it could be most countries.

y go back to your roots and follow there paths or ways when your roots are the only thing in your life that u dont control and that matters the least. pride in heritage is like a mask that eats into the face.

(sorry about spelling im dislexic)

[gilmore]

Well said, Belsen.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Belsen-- glad you're back. You might not be able to spell, but damn, do you make people think!

I have to agree with a lot of what you are saying-- H.L.Mencken once rightly said that "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation." That sense of underlying desperation is, I believe, why so many individuals embrace activities on the edge of the cultural mainstream. As our society becomes less "connected" in the sense of traditional values and relationships more people are attracted to special interest groups-- square dancing, joining the Masons, wearing a kilt. This is not a rejection of the totality of "modern cultural values", but rather a desire to find a boulder to cling to in the tempestuous river of social upheaval that rages around all of us.

Identifying with one's chosen culture (be it Punk-culture or Scottish-Culture) is, basically, a good thing. It provides a bit more stability, and reduces the sense of "quiet desperation" that Mencken referred to.

So, if wearing a kilt fits in with your desire to totally embrace Punk culture-- great. Great in the same way that the guy in the utilikilt out in the Mojave desert, or the gentleman in the traditional kilt at the White Heather Ball are fulfilling their own personal cultural imperatives.

And why is it great? Because in this tiny corner of the universe, the one thing that dispels that sense of loneliness and desperation, that allows us, Punk and Heritage Worshiper alike, to communicate, to feel a bit less desperate, is the kilt.

[Monkey@Arms]

Gentlefolk,

I must say that this has been one of the most fascinating threads that I have ever read on any forum. The level of discourse by the members, some of whom I don't always agree with, has been exemplary, and it has given me new perspectives on many issues regarding the wearing of the kilt. My thanks to all.

Best regards,

Jake

[sharpdressedscot]

i just want to say me view on the "what makes a scot" discussion. i think heritage pride and root seeking pride is a lode of rubbish. in the modern world there are not alot of cultural differences unless they r baced on religion or if u dig deep especially rich countries.

i think that people within alot of societies in "the new world" and even other places. that search there roots and create pride from it are escaping from the boring culture around them and want to identify them selfs as something els. its the same with sub-culters of today people become punk, goth, scene kid, rude boy. cuz they r bored of modern society.

i ware a kilt not with pride not with respect but also not with ignorance i just wear a kilt cuz it fits in with MY culture and my interest in celtic culture

i think that national culture is dieing its turning into religious culture, class culture and sub-cultures. i mean for example take a look at the streets of scotland i bet if u were shown a pic of people doing day to day business with no clue of where it was show it to 100 diff people i doubt hardly any one could say it is scotland and they are Scottish people if i went back in time 100 or 200 years and did the same thing it would be opposite results. im not just picking on scotland it could be most countries.

y go back to your roots and follow there paths or ways when your roots are the only thing in your life that u dont control and that matters the least. pride in heritage is like a mask that eats into the face.

(sorry about spelling im dislexic)

Family roots and heritage can actually be quite important. If you don't know your root, then what can you know. Show you and and a million others hate looking back, but if you don't know the past, then you can't know the future. It kinda goes along with that: What happened in the past will happen again if you don't learn from it.

Also, roots are important because of identity. It says what your heritage is, it gives people pride, to be proud of what they are.

Maybe I am bored with this modern society or maybe I'm part of it but want to be different. But I don't wear my kilt to be different, I wear it because, not only it's my heritage, but I can wear it with pride and don't give a crap what you think of it. I'm proud of my roots and heritage.

[Oldhiker]

Maybe I am bored with this modern society or maybe I'm part of it but want to be different. But I don't wear my kilt to be different, I wear it because, not only it's my heritage, but I can wear it with pride and don't give a crap what you think of it. I'm proud of my roots and heritage.

Ya i agree, if you don't know where you have been you wont know where you are going.

If I could roll back the clock 1000 years that would be so much fun knowing what I do now

[beloitpiper]

Yeah, belsen, I have to disagree....with basically everything you said. Here's why.

in the modern world there are not alot of cultural differences unless they r baced on religion or if u dig deep especially rich countries.

Cultural difference? What about language, sports, clothing, or music? Ok, maybe music has ties with religion, but the other have developed totally separate from religion. I have no idea why you dragged religion into this, because it has very little (if anything) to do with kilts and pride in one's heritage.

i think that people within alot of societies in "the new world" and even other places. that search there roots and create pride from it are escaping from the boring culture around them and want to identify them selfs as something els. its the same with sub-culters of today people become punk, goth, scene kid, rude boy. cuz they r bored of modern society.

I'm not bored with modern culture. Kilts ARE a modern culture. You asct as if we're all dressing up and acting like it's the 17th century! Highland Games, bagpipes, and other Scottish events are just as strong today as they ever were. No, this is not a dead culture. It is part of our modern culture, and I am not trying to escape reality.

i think that national culture is dieing its turning into religious culture, class culture and sub-cultures. i mean for example take a look at the streets of scotland i bet if u were shown a pic of people doing day to day business with no clue of where it was show it to 100 diff people i doubt hardly any one could say it is scotland and they are Scottish people if i went back in time 100 or 200 years and did the same thing it would be opposite results. im not just picking on scotland it could be most countries.

I'm not exactly sure what you said here, but yeah, you're probably right. If you were to take a photo of a Scottish street, it might look like a street in England or Ireland. But that does not mean that it's turning into a religious culture, class culture, or sub-culture.

And another thing, class-culture has always been there! You act like lower class and upper-class is a new thing. Ever since the BEGINNING OF CIVILIZATION, there has been separate classes with separate, distinct cultures. And religious culture. I'm not sure what you're saying here either, but religion has always had a major role in shaping national culture. I don't know what religion you're aiming at, but I think you're a bit confused. In fact, I think religion has less influence now than it ever has.

y go back to your roots and follow there paths or ways when your roots are the only thing in your life that u dont control and that matters the least. pride in heritage is like a mask that eats into the face.

Even if I lose everything, I'll still have my heritage. Nobody can EVER take that away from me. My family and ancestors separate me from everybody else in the world, and it is why I'm me. I think it matters MOST. Why does it eat into my face?


I'm just really confused. If you hate roots and heritage and and think that national culture is just a mask to hide from modern culture and that religion is taking over national culture, why wear a kilt? Seems a bit...counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

[Mike1]

Guys, guys, guys, why do these threads always break down like this?

How many Americans are wearing breeches, broadcloth shirts and tricorn hats on a daily basis? Or buckskins and coonskin caps? I can't recall the last time I walked down a street and saw a gent in a powdered wig. And why do the American flags always blossom from houses on 4 July and then disappear for another year? Is it a state law that residents of Texas must wear a Stetson at all times?

Why are you always so insistent on trying to lump all mankind into one group? Gie it a rest!

I count myself blessed to have as many pals in Scotland as I do. (And nearly every last one of them has commented on how affluent we are here in the States.) Most of my Scots pals own a kilt. Note, A kilt, as in singular. Because most of them cannot afford to own two, or three or forty-three. I know several of them that earn considerably more money than I, yet their standard of living struggles to be on par with my own. The next time you pitch a fit about $3/gallon gasoline, be damn thankful your not paying $8/gallon, like they are in Scotland.

But when it comes time for a commemoration, the plaids and arasaidhs that these folk don are are incredible.

And I'm far too polite to repeat some of the comments that have been made to me about some of the more economically-priced kilts that are now available on today's market.

I bet you don't see Dutch people waddling about in wooden shoes, the people in Rome going about their days in togas and men on in German boardrooms wearing lederhosen. I could be wrong, however...

[graham_s]

as of this morning when I filled up, $9.16 a gallon!

[Phil]

This subject seems to come up regularly and I see it as part of the misconception the rest of the world has about Scots and their customs (and I am not including the majority who actually think we are English!). Scots see themselves as a modern, forward-looking society, not some mist-shrouded anachronism leaping from glen to glen in a ridiculous parody of "Brigadoon". Apart from a few tourist guides, kilt shop employees and, yes I have to say it, American tourists, few actual Scots wear the kilt on a daily basis. For one thing it costs too much to risk it getting torn or stained and for another most work places have dress codes which discourage it. For us it is a dress for special occasions when we want to look our best. I was married in a top hat and tails as was the custom in Scotland thirty odd years ago. Few people owned a kilt then and the only ones I ever saw were in pipe bands and on the occasional boy scout. I am sorry to disappoint but probably the last place you can expect to see a kilt is in Scotland as it genuinely is not worn regularly by people here.