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24th November 08, 08:21 PM
#101
Originally Posted by Panache
Now Behave!
Cheers
Jamie
To keep this post on topic: Jamie, that tropical cutway jacket looks like it would go well with a sgian dhu. Where'd you get it?
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24th November 08, 08:42 PM
#102
Originally Posted by Jack Daw
To keep this post on topic: Jamie, that tropical cutway jacket looks like it would go well with a sgian dhu. Where'd you get it?
That is a one-of-a-kind Safari jacket from Empire Canvas Works.
http://www.empirecanvasworks.com/
I have one of their Heritage shirts as well (and a pair of protype ghillies)
Amazing quality and...
MINE ALL MINE!
ith:
Cheers
Jamie
-See it there, a white plume
Over the battle - A diamond in the ash
Of the ultimate combustion-My panache
Edmond Rostand
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24th November 08, 09:47 PM
#103
I don't wear one simply b/c I do not own one as of yet. When I do buy one I will probally wear it when ever I wear the hose.
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24th November 08, 09:48 PM
#104
Originally Posted by Southern Breeze
The shrunken head wielding mod has been heard from.
Actually, I believe that is a genuine replica fly whisk --- see WPG for an example. "Absolutely required when delivering classic lines like I'll have my man clean your kit "
Ken Sallenger - apprentice kiltmaker, journeyman curmudgeon,
gainfully unemployed systems programmer
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25th November 08, 02:31 AM
#105
Fly whisk punnishment... I remember that from childhood.
I did note one interesting thing in the novel that is worth posting. It described the sgian dubh to be about as long as the span of the thumb to small finger when held apart. For some reason that drove home how small a sgian dubh really is. Looking at the measurements I've come across, that does seem to be about right. My mind had it a bit bigger. I thought it worth bringing up because it was strange to me that I misjudged it's length even though I have known the normal measurements for a while now....
I have a seasoned branch from one of the almond trees that used to be in my orchard that I am thinking about making into a sgian don't... Not sure how wide or thick the handle is supposed to be, though ; I have all the other mesurements. That would be a daywear sgian don't.
I will now accept the fly whisk beating for bringing up the novels again.
Last edited by Bugbear; 28th November 08 at 12:39 AM.
I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…
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27th November 08, 07:44 AM
#106
The following excerpt is from a history of Clan Forbes (not my clan, but I'm well acquainted therein), and contains the earliest dated reference I could find on the use of blades specifically referred to and carried as skeans (sgians) -
"The burning of Corgarf had an equally dire sequel: a meeting for reconciliation took place between a select number of the heads of the two houses in Lord Forbes’ castle of Druminor. The guests arrived, and both parties sat down to feast. Afterward, Huntly said to his host, 'As our business is settled, tell me, had it not been so, what your intent was to have done.' The Forbes chief replied, 'There was to be bloody, bloody work, and we would have had the best of it. See, we are mixed one and one, Forbeses and Gordons; had I but given sign by stroking my beard, every Forbes would have drawn his skean from under arm, and stabbed to the heart the man to his right.' As he spoke, Forbes suited the sign to the word, and stroked down his flowing beard. Instantly, a score of skeans were out, flashing in the light of the pine torches, and were swiftly buried in as many hearts; for the Forbeses had mistaken this gesture for the signal to attack, and knifed to death the unsuspecting Gordons. The chiefs stared at each other in silent shock; at length Forbes said, 'This is a tragedy not expected, but cannot be undone, and the blood that floods the floor of Druminor will just help to slocken the auld fire of Corgarf.'
Years later, in 1592, after the Earl of Huntly murdered the Bonnie Earl of Moray at Dunnibristle, Lord Forbes, who had been Moray’s friend, marched with the slain man’s bloody shirt on a spear’s head through his territories, inciting his followers to march in revenge against the Gordons."
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27th November 08, 08:43 AM
#107
Originally Posted by Streetcar
In Seattle, the display of a dreaded tobacco pipe would elicit a similar bit of suspicion, if not disdain.
I resemble that Think about my "name"
PUFFER
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27th November 08, 10:13 AM
#108
Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown
Gentlemen, regain your senses! In all probability the sgian dubh is of even lesser antiquity than the "modern" kilt. It seems to me that earliest identifiable appearance of the sgian dubh can be verifiably dated to about 1811, as seen in the portrait of Colonel Alasdair MacDondald of Glengarry painted by Raeburn. That it wasn't a de rigueur item of highland dress is obvious from its omission in the portrait of George IV painted by Wilkie in 1822 or there abouts. Although loaded down with virtually every possible Scottish accessory in this picture, the king isn't wearing a sgian dubh.
In 1852 Sir Edwin Landseer produced another of his ever popular romantic pictures, "Queen Victoria Landing at Loch Muick". The picture shows Victoria greeting her husband, Prince Albert, after a successful day's stag hunting. Quite clearly shown tucked into the top of Prince Albert's hose is his sgian dubh.
So what happened in those ensuing years that brought the sgian dubh into fashionable royal circles? Stag hunting, that's what. Before 1822 very few Britons ventured north in pursuit of stag hunting. But once Victoria and Albert had popularized the Highlands, stag hunting became one of the aristocratic "must do" past times.
It is my theory, supported by James D. Forman (author of The Scottish Dirk), that the sgian dubh was originally the game keeper's skinning knife, and it was probably taken from the sporran or coat pocket and thrust into the socking top as a matter of convenience when skinning out game. Aristocratic shooters, keen to emulate their highland hunt servants, undoubtedly did the same to mark themselves out as "hunters" (probably in much the same way as German hunters stuck the "gamsbart" into their shooting hats).
If further proof of this thesis is required then one only needs to look at the earliest surviving specimens of sgians dubh. Blades tend to be under four inches, with 3.25/3.75 inches the norm. The blades are clipped (as opposed to the spear point normally associated with the sgian dubh), and most of them show signs of rigorous use. In other words, the original sgians dubh were the hard-used tool of the professional huntsman, not some clever weapon devised for stealthy attack or last ditch self-defense. (Although, like a hammer, it could be used for attack or defense if it came to it.)
So, a five-inch blade on a sgian dubh? Anyone who has ever skinned out a deer, even in Texas, will tell you that the best tool for the job is a clip point skinning knife with about a 3-3.5-inch blade. Anything else tucked into the top of ones hose isn't a sgian dubh. It's a fantasy knife.
IMHO, a "GOOD" RECAP
Do I wear a "knife"(note, I did NOT say sqians dubh) in my "hose top" ??
I do not own what is "normally" called a "sqians dubh" Instead I carry blades that are IMHO,"more usable"Here is a picture of the one I carry most often A "skinner" with a "FIRE ETCHED" blade & a "curly maple handle"
It depends on the "occasion"
1. "Formal" = My "few" formal occasions are "period", so I wear a "stag hilt"
2. "Business" = Never
3. "Church" = Never (not because of "religious" leanings, just no reason to)
4. "Night Out" = Depends on the situation & the "attire" (if wearing a "dressy Jacket, vest & tie, then seldom. If wearing a "tweed jacket,vest & tie,then ? is who, what & where. (note, if "carrying" then the knife pictured above (or one sim.)- subdued".
5. "Daily Wear" = Again, I let the "occation" dictate, but ALWAYS a "sudued handle"
Puffer
Last edited by puffer; 28th November 08 at 11:27 AM.
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27th November 08, 11:19 AM
#109
I think it’s a good question. Had I been Scottish and were I to wear the kilt formally, I’d most likely wear a sgian dubh. But I have no Scottish roots and I “only” wear a kilt for casual or semi casual functions and therefore I have long ago given up the sgian dubh, despite I have one (a non metal one it is).
In our country it is practically forbidden to wear knives (as well as other weapons) in public unless it is necessary for your occupation, it is to be used in connection with hunting or you are a scout. That does not prevent criminals from killing other people by shooting them (very popular these days, it seems) or by stabbing them with an illegal knife.
Greg
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27th November 08, 09:48 PM
#110
I've brought down more than a few deer (and a couple moose) in the course of my life, most of them with a longbow, and all of them I skun myself, and several of those I gutted, skinned, caped & jointed right where they died . . and on those occasions I was very glad that the knife I carried on those hunts had a thick, hefty blade measuring 5.5".
A 2.5 -3.5" belt knife will get you through most moderate skinning jobs, if freeing the hide is all you need to do, but when it comes to quartering & caping & boning, especially on site, I wouldn't want to rely on any knife with less than 5 inches of good hearty steel. (Preferably Damascus.)
And I'd bet hard money that those old-time ghillies & hunters & foresters never carried their choice of blades "tucked in" anywhere south of their hips!
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