Ponderings of an ancient Scot.

[Tobus]

I would like to throw out this live grenade... With the trouser being the "traditional" garment on this side of the salt puddle, the tartan moved from the hip to the chest in the form of plaid flannel shirts. This is still the continuing of a "tartan" history even though it has moved up a bit. The American love of plaid has never diminished, it just moves around a lot. It is interesting that plaid boxer shorts outsell all other colours and designs together.

I've always loved wearing "plaid" flannel shirts (and yes, I have a fondness for plaid flannel boxer shorts too). I have noticed, though, that most of them are not actually a tartan pattern. They do not have the same sett in both directions. It's actually pretty rare to find anything on the American market that is truly the same pattern both ways. It's rarer still to find anything that's in a recognizable established tartan. Most are simply fashion patterns that have no significance.

It would be interesting to think of the American "plaid" pattern as a new form of American tartan wearing, but I don't think Americans as a whole see it that way or would ever adopt it in the same manner. Plaid is just one of many patterns worn, and falls in and out of fashion.

Sadly, if Americans have anything that would be comparable to the Scottish tartan, it's more likely to be designer logos. Be it Guess, Levi's, the Gap, Old Navy, sports emblems, etc., they use these logos as an identifier more than any pattern of colors.

[seanachie]

Not wishing really to open a can of worms, but an Irish kilt in the early 20th century is not an anachronism, with the caveat that it would almost certainly have been either solid green or solid saffron at that time. If it was a tartan kilt, then yes, that would be an anachronism. I'm not sure what type of kilt was shown in that film, though.

As for the tam, if it was a tam and not a caubeen, then it was out of place, period. Glengarries are sometimes worn by Irish pipers, but AFAIK were not in that time period, and tams are Scottish, period. OTOH, a caubeen is virtually the same thing with no tourie.

I know I should have the reference at hand, but alas at the moment I do not, but what about St Patrick's Blue? (note the interogative) I have found several references to this color in some of the reading I have done. I have even looked at trying to find one to add to my solid green and saffron. In another thread someone pointed out a pipe band in New York (Long Island?) that wore St Patrick's blue kilts up until the early 2000's before switching.

Interesting info here.

[macwilkin]

I know I should have the reference at hand, but alas at the moment I do not, but what about St Patrick's Blue? (note the interogative) I have found several references to this color in some of the reading I have done. I have even looked at trying to find one to add to my solid green and saffron. In another thread someone pointed out a pipe band in New York (Long Island?) that wore St Patrick's blue kilts up until the early 2000's before switching.

Interesting info here.

The Sword of Light Pipe Band of the IBEW (my dad's union) wore a light blue kilt, as does the Dublin City Fire Brigade Pipe Band.

Saint Patrick's Blue is the traditional colour of hackles worn by the Irish Guards.

T.

[jordanjm]

As an American of Scottish Decent. I want to share my reason to wear the kilt, and to wear my clan tartan. I purposefully waited until I could get a tartan in my clan tartan (MacGillivray). The next two kilts I would like to get are a Great Kilt in MacGillivray Hunting, and a Matt Newsome in the Chattan tartan. I love learning about my heritage, and I am passing it on to my children. The Scottish heritage has given me strength in hard time, and I feel strongly connected. It is my hope that my grand children, and great grand children will want to wear the kilt in their clan tartan. I believe it was a chief of Clan Donald who said, referring to his American Clansmen, "The Blood is Strong, and 200 years, or 2000 miles will not change that." I believe I read that story on this site. My point is that those of us of Scottish decent who are from outside Scotland hold our heritage as something which is precious, and do not understand the idea that we would let go of a part of who we are.

[seanachie]

The Sword of Light Pipe Band of the IBEW (my dad's union) wore a light blue kilt, as does the Dublin City Fire Brigade Pipe Band.

Saint Patrick's Blue is the traditional colour of hackles worn by the Irish Guards.

T.

Remind me never to challenge you in Trivial Pursuit, CajunScot Your knowledge is pretty amazing. Thanks for sharing this info.

[Ozark Ridge Rider]

. The Scottish heritage has given me strength in hard time, and I feel strongly connected.

I believe it was a chief of Clan Donald who said, referring to his American Clansmen, "The Blood is Strong, and 200 years, or 2000 miles will not change that." I believe I read that story on this site. My point is that those of us of Scottish decent who are from outside Scotland hold our heritage as something which is precious, and do not understand the idea that we would let go of a part of who we are.

What he said!!!

Somewhere I picked up a quote, "Scottish blood is only diluted by Scotch whisky".

Also, in regard to tartan shirts, L L Bean has for some time rotated several tartans in their shirt offerings, I suppose as a marketing thing. It works. It took my fair lass about 2 minutes to order one when she found out this year they offered a red Scott.

[Mael Coluim]

Also, in regard to tartan shirts, L L Bean has for some time rotated several tartans in their shirt offerings, I suppose as a marketing thing. It works.

You're right twenty five years ago, I ordered several for my family of the Malcolm tartan plaid shirt they offered. And was I suprised to see one of my residents wearing one last year! Ours were long ago made threadbare and retired!

[jordanjm]

I think some families have already seen some dilution. By the time my grandfather was grown my family had forgotten that McGilvray was a Scottish surname. I have done a lot of research, and work to recover my heritage. This makes it even more special to me.

[KiltShot]

I think if future generations of non-Scots take to wearing the kilt in large numbers it will be for style and comfort. That would mean more universal fashion tartans and more contemporary kilt construction. I see young people in the west slowly losing interest in their ancestors. In my opinion, the youth are not interested in history as much as the present and the future.

On the other hand, I doubt that Black Watch and Royal Stewart will ever disappear. (Even if their roots are forgotten.)

Am I wrong? Is there a steady increase in genealogical research or is it a passing fad? Are people really interested in their ancestry, Scottish or other? Do they place value on it? My opinion may be influenced by the attitudes of people around me who have set their minds on where they want to go and not where they came from.

Now that my crystal ball is warmed up, here's what I see:

The next generation will be influenced by the present generation's style of dress, be it smart or sloppy. I would be happy to see the contemporary kilt take on a conservative business style and/or a neat casual everyday style. I don't see any guarantee on that, though. And to me, sloppy is unsightly in any form.

The kilt patterns the next generation will wear will be influenced by what is important to them. Kilts with team colors, contrasting pleats, vertical lines and black. Lots of black and leather with studs and pockets for your electronics. A kilt that looks like you stepped right out of the matrix. Wear it low on the hips, Dude.

Bands will choose tartans that create a unique image to make them stand out from the competition. School tartans, state tartans, corporate tartans, custom tartans.

And wool? Who can afford wool or real leather? Or for that matter, a hand-sewn kilt? In steps China to the rescue! Out go the dollars over the sea.

Does this sound like a Nightmare on Kilt Street?
(Make me wrong about all this, please!)

[MartinGrenoble]

I still think the "heritage" fad pretty pointless, since most people bother more about a name than about who the real forebears were. We all have 2 parents, but usally only one name. Why exclude one half of the genes in every generation?
Limiting research to the male ancestors would mean that one has very few genes in common with those of two or three generations generations back. You have half your father's genes, 1/4 of his father's, 1/8 of his grandfather's, etc. Sounds like homeopathy; if you believe in it, it will work!
What about your mother's family? and her mother's and grandmother's? You may not bear their name, but you have just as much of their "blood".

As jordanjm wrote :
> I think some families have already seen some dilution.

Unless you practice incest or parthenogenesis (cloning), all families will have mixed "blood", each generation losing some genes and gaining others.

Kiltshot wrote :
> My opinion may be influenced by the attitudes of people around me who have set their minds on where they want to go and not where they came from.

That makes sense to me.

Martin