"Rules" for wearing family tartan

[McClef]

I think that people, particularly the British, are very good at preserving those things that they appreciate. After all, in the 21st century we still have Yeoman Warders, Beefeaters, Palace guards, Highland regiments, even fox hunters, who still wear traditional styles of clothing that have changed very little since the Victorian era. Once they had reached a certain state of aesthetic perfection efforts were made to preserve them in that form. The adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind. To me, the world wouldn't be nearly as pleasant if things like the ubiquitous British telephone booths and letter boxes that have been a fixture since the Edwardian era were suddenly replaced by some unsightly modern counterpart. I feel the same way everytime I see attempts to modernize Scottish dress, it gives me a sick feeling to see something I personally cherish bastardized in such a manner.

Some things change and that, alas, includes red telephone boxes and letter boxes.

Uniforms also change with a few exceptions apart from dress or ceremonial varieties. The kilt as also evolved - no doubt there were those who resisted the way it changed from the feile mór to the feile beagh too. The kilt is a very versatile garment and can go with many different styles of apparel. Some styles will look good in the eyes of some people and not of others - that is part of the variety and enjoyment.

[auld argonian]

And I thought my original question would have a quick yes/no answer and that'd be the end of that... :-)

You're new here, aren't ya?

Best

AA

[Brian K]

You're new here, aren't ya?

Best

AA

Sort of reminds of the old saying of Talmudic scholars: "Ask 10 rabbis a question and you'll get 11 opinions!"

[Micric]

I have to admit, the items posted above are beautiful indeed.
Yet, a question remains;

Were any of the above carried /used by real highlanders, or merely by rich Victorian and Edwardians, playing the part?
It is a fact that in the late Vic. era and beyond, the way to win the "Best dressed highlander" competition was to be dripping in arms and accoutrements.

So, since this was the case, Is this indeed what we need to be looikng at to determine our traditions and what/who may wear what?

In all honesty, I think that even fairly well-heeled Highlander would look at the above accoutrements, as bonny as thy are, and look at his own monetary state of affairs and think;
"Och!...Bl---y Saxons!"

Best wishes,

Richard.

Corden,

Please don't lose heart.
The thought of throwing in the towell had crossed my mind, yet I must say we only have one kick at the can on this world, so we must do all we can whilst here.
I got to 56 before I ever wore a kilt,..and wish'd I'd had one Much sooner.
I was like you as well, from 'wrong' side of border and didn't feel really entitled.
As we have seen though if we choose a tartan with some meaning to ourselves, and wear it well, it's noone's business but our own.

I have a Mackenzie kilt, I received it from a good Mackenzie friend up in the Lochindhorb area. I hold them in high regard and that is why I will wear it.
I asked their personal permission to wear it and they told me they would be honoured if I did so.

So, even though we have gone through the fire and flood in this thread, and there are at the end of it more dead bodies than live ones, so to speak;
I Will wear my Mackenzie tartan with no pretext of actually Being a Mackenzie, But I will wear it always respectfully, thinking on my pal
and wearing it Well.

cheers,

Richard.

[JSFMACLJR]

I have to admit, the items posted above are beautiful indeed.
Yet, a question remains;

Were any of the above carried /used by real highlanders, or merely by rich Victorian and Edwardians, playing the part?
It is a fact that in the late Vic. era and beyond, the way to win the "Best dressed highlander" competition was to be dripping in arms and accoutrements..

There were "real Highlanders" during the Victorian and Edwardian eras. I think what you are trying to say is "were there any Highland gentlemen living in the Highlands in the Reigns of Queen Victoria and King Edward VII, or did they all live in the south?"

[Monkey@Arms]

Ah well, its only an opinion; everyone has one.

Indeed, one is often said to be "entitled" to one. I've got no problems with ones contrary to my own (although they are per se wrong, of course) as long as they are not presented as fact.

Take a look at how the Chief of the Murrays dressed circa 1822:
[IMG][/IMG]


He looked positively "pimpin" as they say these days.

That is too funny, I was thinking the exactly same thing, but figured I'd upset too many people if I voiced that thought out loud.

Well, if nothing else, we now know what the elusive Crookdrak-Cheng tartan looks like.

Best regards,

Jake

[davidlpope]

Just out of curiousity....how many here agree that a clan chief is "entitled" to the "right" of wearing three eagle feathers in his bonnet?

I do. That "right" is codified and enforced by the legal jurisdiction of the Lord Lyon's court. See the website which contains the pertinent quote, below: http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/242.html

Chiefs of Clans

Chiefs have the right to wear their Crests as badges

either simpliciter, without the accompaniment of circlet, motto or feathers behind the badge.
or, as is more usual, surrounded with a plain circlet inscribed with his Motto or Slogan, NOT a strap-and-buckle which is for clansmen; and, if they choose, with THREE eagle’s feathers in silver behind the circlet.
Chiefs

Heads of large branches of a Clan, who have been Officially Recognised as Chiefs by the Lord Lyon King of Arms, may wear:

either their own personal Crest within a plain circlet inscribed with the Motto, as for a Chief, but with two small eagles' feathers instead of the Chief’s three. If the Chieftain is also a Peer, he may add the appropriate coronet of rank on top of the circlet,
or they may wear their Chief’s Crest badge without feather like any other clansman, as described for clansmen, below.
Armigers

A person who has registered his or her own coat of Arms and Crest, or inherited these according to the Laws of Arms in Scotland from an ancestor who had recorded them in the Lyon Register, may wear their own Crest as a badge:

either on its Wreath, Crest Coronet or Chapeau,
or, as is more usual, within a plain circlet inscribed with his Motto.
An armiger may also choose to wear instead the Crest badge of his Chief if the armiger is a clansman. An armiger is entitled to one silver eagle's feather behind the plain circlet, and if he is also a Peer he may add his appropriate coronet of rank on top of the circlet.

If there was a legal authority that governed the wear and use of tartans, then there could also be "rights" related to them. As the current situation presents itself, I maintain that only the chief of a clan may make any sort of "authoritative" decision concerning his or her clan's tartan. Even then, that authority is "moral", instead of "legal" as there is no court with jurisdiction over the wear and use of tartan (except in those rare cases where a tartan has been copyrighted, such as the Isle of Skye sett.)

Cordially,

David

[McClef]

Surely you mean Charles Philip Arthur George Battenberg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Mein Herr? ;)

All German family titles were renounced in 1916. Besides which you have missed out the Danish paternal line of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg!

Evidently his German great, great, great grandfather thought so too:

Actually the Duke of Rothesay is not descended at all from George IV whose only legitimate issue, Princess Charlotte, died before him. Rather he is descended through his younger brother, Edward Duke of Kent (father of Queen Victoria).

[Steve Barclay]

All German family titles were renounced in 1916. Besides which you have missed out the Danish paternal line of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg!

Blimey! No wonder most folk just choose to refer to him as "Prince Charles"!

[OC Richard]

Take a look at how the Chief of the Murrays dressed circa 1822:
[IMG][/IMG]

Wow that's a great painting! Thanks for posting it.

If it does indeed date to 1822, it's by far the earliest depiction I've seen of a Glengarry.

The Queen's Own Highlanders have claimed that the Glengarry was invented by an officer of the Cameron Highlanders in the 1840s but I've long doubted that. It's probably more like that officer was the one who introduced this previously civilian style into the Army.

Here's the earliest Glengarry I'd seen, Angus MacKay:



That Murray chief also is wearing the low-cut "buckle loafers" as I call them, slipon loafers with a nonfunctional buckle at the toe, a style which was very common in the 19th century but is rarely seen today. (I made a pair myself out of ordinary loafers.)

Note also that the tip of each man's crossbelt is formed as a thistle.