Kilt to prom on Glee tonight in prime time!

[Semiomniscient]

I am not so sure that people have really kept their opinions and judgements quietly to themselves... People seem ever so ready to defend a piece of clothing... but what about the people that are ridiculed, slandered and bashed on a regular basis because they are gay? I realise that this is a kilt forum, so, we are here to discuss, and perhaps if necessary (I don't really think it is!) defend the kilt. But there is a BIGGER issue present here.

Upon reading many of the comments posted here, I feel that many hold the opinion that gay/effeminate/sartorially adventurous (as Kurt from Glee most certainly is) people should be somehow discouraged from wearing the kilt. I'll admit that on occasion I have had doubts myself as to whether I should wear it, for fear of being labelled a stereotype, or attention seeker. In the end, I always ignored those pathetic doubts, and wore the kilt with pride. The only comments I have ever recieved in these situations have been positive. Except:

One time (less than a month ago), after performing with my pipeband, I was returning through the city, after some sort of town festival thing (in the Netherlands) and some stupid red-neck (in a group of course) uttered "homo!" under his breath as I passed. Now, I was wearing my band uniform... Argyll jacket waistcoat, tie, obviously carrying a set of pipes, and I didn't know what offended me more- the fact he called me a homo, insulting my Scottish heritage, or the fact that he (and by the same token, I) considered "homo" an insult. I was furious, it ruined what was otherwise a great day, and left me with a distinctly bitter taste from my mouth to my stomach. I hadn't felt this way in a very long time, and I have to say that it brought back all kinds of terrible memories.

This doesn't happen a lot to me anymore, but it used to when I was in high-school. Kids are committing suicide over this issue, it's bigger than whether a culture can take itself seriously or not. I'm quite sure (although I don't have any statistics) that no Scotsman has ever committed suicide because he was ashamed of his heritage-

quote: Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning youth are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers, according to the Massachusetts 2006 Youth Risk Survey. A 2009 study, "Family Rejection as a Predictor of Negative Health Outcomes" led by Dr. Caitlin Ryan and conducted as part of the Family Acceptance Project at San Francisco State University, shows that adolescence who were rejected by their families for being LGBT were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide. And for every completed suicide by a young person, it is estimated that 100 to 200 attempts are made (2003 Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance Survey).

Seriously people, can we really not stop the hate!?

Some quotes (no apologies for names):

Nighthawk: “I just wish it would have been on a character who was not normally regarded as effeminate.”

“Glee... a gay kid... wearing a kilt pleated all the way around like a skirt…”

“I repeat- Joy... So now, given the fact that this character makes it a habit of wearing women's clothing, it will reinforce the American attitude that the kilt is nothing more special than a woman's skirt. Huzzah...”

Biblemonkey: “Wouldn't it have been great if one of the STRAIGHT characters had worn it…”

Tobus: “It's that they took a very flamboyantly effeminate character who, by all reports, regularly dresses in womens' clothing, and put him in a man's garment…”

“…their introduction to the kilt was a gay effeminate cross-dresser who wore it with leggings and knee-high boots…”

Elliottrohan68: “…I agree with the others posts that seeing as this character wears womens clothing often then this is simply looked at as another skirt…”

Zardoz: “I'm not that jazzed about what seems to be the most stereotypically fem gay character on it wearing a kilt.”

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Everybody is entitled to have strong opinions. These statements you list do not attack homosexuality. They do express some dismay as to how the kilt was portrayed on a tv show, in that of all the characters wearing it--it was the homosexual. When heterosexual men wear a kilt, they do not want to be identified as homosexual, particularly because they are wearing their ancestral attire. For instance, before Glee was ever even a concept, I was asked by a Nigerian woman if I felt like wearing the kilt "made me lose my masculinity?" This was pretty shocking to hear, but I appreciated her honesty (we were at an International Heritage celebration after all, so it was appropriate to learn about other cultures). The thing is, while I understand your frustration with dealing with prejudices and distaste for who people presume you to be. Any kiltie deals with insults and prejudices as to whether or not they're a cross-dresser, or homosexual, etc.
I remember the long-standing rumor in junior high that I was gay because I played the clarinet. When the fact of the matter was that I played it so I could sit surrounded by pretty girls. That rumor persisted into high school, and it was hurtful--but I got over it. Thing is that heterosexual men do often get offended when someone presumes they're homosexual. Many I think, have perceived that Kurt's wearing of the kilt solo has reinforced that erroneous stereotype of "kilt=skirt" or "kilt=feminine", even though we all know better. It's not a judgment against homosexuality in this instance, but portrayal and perception and image. Like I said, heterosexual men don't typically like being confused for homosexual. If you want a reason why, it has to do directly with being attractive and appealing to the opposite sex, our own inherent ideas of masculinity, and being attractive and appealing to the opposite sex.
Please take this with the intent in which it was meant--as a way to make peace and help understanding.

[saxandpipes]

Everybody is entitled to have strong opinions. These statements you list do not attack homosexuality. They do express some dismay as to how the kilt was portrayed on a tv show, in that of all the characters wearing it--it was the homosexual. When heterosexual men wear a kilt, they do not want to be identified as homosexual, particularly because they are wearing their ancestral attire. For instance, before Glee was ever even a concept, I was asked by a Nigerian woman if I felt like wearing the kilt "made me lose my masculinity?" This was pretty shocking to hear, but I appreciated her honesty (we were at an International Heritage celebration after all, so it was appropriate to learn about other cultures). The thing is, while I understand your frustration with dealing with prejudices and distaste for who people presume you to be. Any kiltie deals with insults and prejudices as to whether or not they're a cross-dresser, or homosexual, etc.
I remember the long-standing rumor in junior high that I was gay because I played the clarinet. When the fact of the matter was that I played it so I could sit surrounded by pretty girls. That rumor persisted into high school, and it was hurtful--but I got over it. Thing is that heterosexual men do often get offended when someone presumes they're homosexual. Many I think, have perceived that Kurt's wearing of the kilt solo has reinforced that erroneous stereotype of "kilt=skirt" or "kilt=feminine", even though we all know better. It's not a judgment against homosexuality in this instance, but portrayal and perception and image. Like I said, heterosexual men don't typically like being confused for homosexual. If you want a reason why, it has to do directly with being attractive and appealing to the opposite sex, our own inherent ideas of masculinity, and being attractive and appealing to the opposite sex.
Please take this with the intent in which it was meant--as a way to make peace and help understanding.

True, but it's one thing to consider being thought of as gay (when you're not) as simply an insult. It's another to know that something you are is generally considered to be an insult.

When someone asks a straight kilt-wearing man if he's gay, he can simply say no, and inform the protagonist that they are being rude (in what ever manner they feel is deserving). A gay kilt-wearing man dealing with the same question... "well, yes, aah er, no, well, that has nothing to do with it..."

All I want is for people to stop thinking that gay people are so different...

[saxandpipes]

The character Kurt is just as entitled to mutilate "TCHD" as any other celeb (surely I don't need to give examples)/TV character or any of us for that matter.

The fact that he is gay has absolutely nothing to do with it. That is my point! That is what is upsetting about the comments I quoted.

[saxandpipes]

The character Kurt is just as entitled to mutilate "TCHD" as any other celeb (surely I don't need to give examples).....

Of course I do...!



EEEeeek! and White socks! And Ghillie-Brogues! The horror!!!



Umm... stockings! Well, at least he's hunky!



Where do I start?!



Where's ye sporran?!



Socks! But ok, hunky....



Donald wheres ye troosers!?



and the flashes...?!



Ye Gads!?!@!?!@?!?!#@$?!


Do you want more....? I have more...!

Oh yeah...



Thats not a proper shirt for highland wear...well, unless you're William Wallace or Rob Roy or Robert the Bruce or Ewan McGregor!

[ohiopiper]

I'll open with the statement that I don't care one way or the other if someone is gay, straight, bi, whatever. I'm married and happen to want to stay that way, so I'm not chasing after anyone else, man or woman. It has no personal effect on me. I have an opinion, but I also have an opinion on what brand of socks I like best. I once worked and lived in a barracks with a man who I later found out was gay. It was never an issue because he was a professional and did his job well and kept his personal life to himself, as we all did. And yes, I still keep in contact with him, you can't spend two years of your life in close proximity to someone and not form some sort of friendship. Smitty and I actually got along quite well. Long story short, it doesn't matter to me what another adult does.

I think the issue isn't that they chose a gay character to wear the kilt, it's that they chose ONLY a gay character to wear the kilt, thus reinforcing the notion to some that the kilt is an item of clothing designed for men who'd rather be wearing lace and bangles. If there had been a small group wearing the kilt, no issue. If there had been only a straight character, it MAY have sent a message that the kilt is a garment designed specifically for men to the uneducated (about kilts anyway) masses.

The bottom line is that "the masses", by definition, have no knowlege, interest or stake in what anyone thinks of a kilt, other than a gag to get viewership. Same reason most fathers on the television are portrayed as bumbling fools who ride on the apron strings of their wives. They are concerned about getting a laugh and ratings, not the cumulative effect of the stereotype on young minds who watch it day in and day out.

[biblemonkey]

...These statements you list do not attack homosexuality. They do express some dismay as to how the kilt was portrayed on a tv show, in that of all the characters wearing it--was the homosexual. When heterosexual men wear a kilt, they do not want to be identified as homosexual, particularly because they are wearing their ancestral attire...

Indeed the spirit in which my responses were intended. Gerard Butler in a kilt gets "wow...Gerard butler in a kilt". The kid on glee "another day another Kurt in a skirt." For somone who fights for the masculine perception of the highland wear and who's ancestry (the Grahams) aknowledged it as the "manly wear of the highlander" (paraphrasing), it was a blow to the cause in my personal circle to have one of the most popularly effeminately gay television characters wear a kilt and get so much press over it. it reinforced an effeminate sterotype enjoyed by the closed minded set and made my uphill battle that much harder.

Now, if you are gay and wear a kilt...enjoy the kilt! But the media in general has a much different agenda and in this case I think it was not the masculinity of the highland wear.

[saxandpipes]

Indeed the spirit in which my responses were intended. Gerard Butler in a kilt gets "wow...Gerard butler in a kilt". The kid on glee "another day another Kurt in a skirt." For somone who fights for the masculine perception of the highland wear and who's ancestry (the Grahams) aknowledged it as the "manly wear of the highlander" (paraphrasing), it was a blow to the cause in my personal circle to have one of the most popularly effeminately gay television characters wear a kilt and get so much press over it. it reinforced an effeminate sterotype enjoyed by the closed minded set and made my uphill battle that much harder.

Now, if you are gay and wear a kilt...enjoy the kilt! But the media in general has a much different agenda and in this case I think it was not the masculinity of the highland wear.

Good luck with your uphill battle

[biblemonkey]

Good luck with your uphill battle

Thanks, I'm trying. But on I press in the knowledge that the kilt is an honorable garment with hundreds of years of rough, tough, principled men to back me up no matter what those non-thinkers of the world may say.

"A man in a kilt is a man and a half" after all.

FREEDOM!

Hugh

[saxandpipes]

...
I think the issue isn't that they chose a gay character to wear the kilt, it's that they chose ONLY a gay character to wear the kilt, thus reinforcing the notion to some that the kilt is an item of clothing designed for men who'd rather be wearing lace and bangles. If there had been a small group wearing the kilt, no issue. If there had been only a straight character, it MAY have sent a message that the kilt is a garment designed specifically for men to the uneducated (about kilts anyway) masses.

(emphasis added to make it clear why I have a problem with this...!)

Do you really care what someone who think all gay people would "rather wear lace and bangles" thinks?

[saxandpipes]

If it had been one of the manly men, or a group of them, just think how much worse it would have been- they would have screwed it up equally as bad, and then you would have people trying to emulate their "style" all over the world!

We should consider ourselves lucky!