Really are they that scared!

[MacFhearchair]

I really enjoyed and agreed with the first five paragraphs of your post Mac Fhearchair but the sixth above is problematic. I don't know what you mean by fighting for Scottish Independence but the last wars fought for that purpose occurred before 1603. If you are referring to the Jacobite rebellions of 1715 and 1745 they were not fought for Scottish Independence but for the Stuart dynasty's claim to the personally united thrones of Scotland, England, and Ireland and the restoration of Absolute Monarchy over a Parliamentary and Constitutional Monarchy. There was very little Free about the lives of the average Highland clansman living under the tyranny of heritable feudal jurisdictions prior to 1747. I am generally supportive of the Scottish diaspora love of the kilt and Scots heritage, but equating Jacobitism with Scottish Freedom and/or Independence is to completely misconstrue Scotland's (and the rest of Britain's) history and culture.

Hmm. Well, the way I've come to understand it is very different from how you describe matters, but I don't feel like I have a robust enough education in this corner of history to really argue, so I'll opt to backpedal.

I was under the impression that the Jacobite uprisings, had they been successful, would have allowed Scotland a separate government which is what many, especially in the north, wanted. In any case, the fact remains, at least as I've understood it, that Scotland's cultural uniqueness was deeply damaged by what happened thereafter, when dressing too much like a highlander among other things was a criminal act for.. what? a generation?

...that said, I'll concede that you very well may be right and I ought perhaps to get back to my books.

[llyd]

I really think you will find that the growth in apparent interest in Scotland is indeed due to the convenience of the interwebs...indeed this site is a prime example, however, it is very likely a false assumption that it is because of the internet...our roots run deep...my Hamilton ancestors apparently had something to do with founding Walker county georgia..there were many, many pioneer Scots...The Scots and Irish brome Appalachia and made it feed them...and they are still there. Dug in like ticks, stubborn amd ornery as any Highlander...

[Singlemalt]

Hmm. Well, the way I've come to understand it is very different from how you describe matters, but I don't feel like I have a robust enough education in this corner of history to really argue, so I'll opt to backpedal.

I was under the impression that the Jacobite uprisings, had they been successful, would have allowed Scotland a separate government which is what many, especially in the north, wanted. In any case, the fact remains, at least as I've understood it, that Scotland's cultural uniqueness was deeply damaged by what happened thereafter, when dressing too much like a highlander among other things was a criminal act for.. what? a generation?

...that said, I'll concede that you very well may be right and I ought perhaps to get back to my books.

Yes I afraid I agree with Peter, I am only an amateur student of history now but while the era of the Jacobite risings were a great source of songs and stories the actual struggle was not so much between Scotland and England but between rival claims to the thrones of both countries and an old vs. a more modern approach to monarchy. In a sentimental way I can sing "Will Ye No Come Back Again" but as someone who beleives in democracy i don't think I would really like the plan for Britain the Stuarts had in mind.

[TheOfficialBren]

Father Bill, I am with Phil on this one.

+100!!!

Excellently put, padre!

[neloon]

Father Bill,
I think one of your recent posts was intended as a reply to mine. I don't believe that in my post you will find any disapproval of Canadian (or US) multiculturalism.* I was merely thinking aloud in an abstract way about why the Scottish diaspora that is most familiar to "native" Scots (i.e. the English diaspora) behaves in the way that is so different from the American. None of these variations is right or wrong.
The emphasis on roots in recents posts is, I think, helpful to Scots since it has meaning even within Scotland. The Highland diaspora into the rest of Scotland over the last 200 years came with such a rootedness that pretty much all the symbols of Scotland (except Burns/haggis) are from Highland rather than Lowland culture. So, may your roots be strong.

Alan

*Anecdotal PS:- Our next door neighbour's mother was Italian and his father Polish - so his name is unspellable and nearly unpronouncable. But you will not find a prouder Scot. His son in law is (I would guess) Middle Eastern and his grand-daughter is completely bilingual in Gaelic and English (through going to a Gaelic-medium school).

[neloon]

MacFhearchair, Peter Crowe, Singlemalt,
Another component of 1715/45 was religion - Highlanders at that time were mainly Catholic and sought a Catholic monarch to save them from Protestant encroachment.

Alan

[Manfialba]

How ironic that..... at my sons school (here in Scotland) the wearing of the kilt is mandatory for many school events. It is also the preferred dress of choice for the kids at any "smart" function, including the end of year ball, few if any would wear a dinner suit (tux) in preference to a kilt. My eldest recalls having to choose between this kilt and his trews, he went for the trews as he claimed ...."everyone else will be in their kilts".
The boys also wear kilts casually, especially when going to watch international rugby games.
All male students must have a kilt as it is a required part of the school uniform.

[Father Bill]

Father Bill,
I think one of your recent posts was intended as a reply to mine.

Actually, only part of mine was in response to you. It was the appreciative part! I then wandered off onto another exploration of the concepts under discussion.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression; I found your comments helpful and in no way thought that you were disapproving of our situation here.

As regards your neighbour with the wonderful unpronounceable name (a friend of mine once commented that his own surname needed a vowel movement) there are those who would say he was in no way a Scot. Pish and tosh to that! In our modern world with so much movement, one of the difficulties is in saying who is what at all. As has been commented here (was it in fact you, perhaps, or someone else?) We're all Jack Tamson's get.

Recent genome studies have discovered something interesting: there are no races in the species other than the human race, merely different decendencies within it.

What a great day for the race!

[Peter Crowe]

Indeed Alan, and it is a wee bittie more complicated than that. Not only were the Jacobite clans more likely to be Roman Catholic, but many of the Jacobite gentry of the North East were Episcopalian (The Scottish Episcopal Church had refused to abjure it's loyalty to James VII). Those Scots who were Presbyterian (probably the majority in the Lowlands, although also some Highland clans in the far north) had an interest in supporting the House of Hanover as guarantor of their religious liberty. When I studied this at University, I discovered that these denominational break downs in support for either side were broadly true, but you find exceptions. My wider point is that the Stuart/Hanover contest is as much one of competing ideologies on Kingship than a war between nations or about the Union (which was still deeply unpopular among both Jacobites and Presbyterians at the time). I have to be honest, that given my background and beliefs, it is more probable that I would have backed Hanover whatever distaste I might feel about the way Jacobitism was brutally suppressed. These events have no bearing on my current views about Scotland's constitutional future but this is not the venue to have that discussion.

MacFhearchair, Peter Crowe, Singlemalt,
Another component of 1715/45 was religion - Highlanders at that time were mainly Catholic and sought a Catholic monarch to save them from Protestant encroachment.

Alan

[Peter Crowe]

Recent genome studies have discovered something interesting: there are no races in the species other than the human race, merely different decendencies within it.

What a great day for the race!

Indeed, very well stated Bill, we are at the end of the day all Jock Tamson's bairns