The ideal time for the black argyll

[The Wizard of BC]

There is one point that I don't see having been mentioned in this thread yet.

You must remember that the term 'Argyle" that we apply to a jacket today is actually a fairly new concept. The name actually refers, not to the jacket itself, but to the the style of cuff.

It is possible to make the exact same jacket with a variety of different cuff treatments.

Here is a clip taken from just one shop offering jackets.





Up until the late '50's and early '60's when you ordered a jacket for your kilt it was usually made by the people in the shop where you bought your kilt. Each shop had their own patterns and styles.
Each shop also had their own names for things. Nothing was standard as we think of today.

Each shop tried to have something different or unique that would attract customers.

Using old catalogs is good for getting ideas, but if you want one of these jackets you will probably need to go to a shop that still makes their jackets themselves. They are very few and far between today the the prices reflect this exclusivity



Today, the vast number of jackets available in shops are all made in one of 2 or 3 central places that specialize in making jackets.. The individual shops all order their jackets from these same few tailors.

Notice that all the jackets in the clip above are the exact same jacket. (single button, double vent, notch collar, with epaulets) The only difference is the cuff treatment.

[Jock Scot]

One also needs to remember, that up to the not too distant past, hand me downs and within the home adjustments, featured large in the kilted wardrobe for many, most even. So exact fits, perfect length, etc.,were not serious issues and were never going to encourage the cookie cutter styles that we are used to today, it is a shame in a way as these inevitable variations and interpretations of style did make for some super kilt attire combinations. Even with my rather more fortunate kilted background, new attire was and in some ways still is, more the exception rather than the rule.

I suppose----and this is an observation ,not a criticism-------- given that most members here are starting from scratch with their kilt attire interest, it is quite understandable that they only know the modern catalog, cookie cutter, peas in the pod type mindset, but this way of kitting ourselves out does tend to narrow the mind more than somewhat when one is deciding what to buy, when to wear it and being sometimes hyper critical with pictures of kilted attire and particularly, those of the past. What appears to have been lost though, for understandable reasons, due to this, is the confidence to make appropriate KILT ATTIRE decisions to fit the occassion.

[Jock Scot]

Thanks for this post Jock. As a new kilt wearer, I had idea how to get the right level of formality. For the vast majority of the events I attend, you may see men in a sports jackets. I looked way over dressed wearing my converted tweed jacket. But this pullover look works perfectly.

Delighted to be of some help.

[McMurdo]

One also needs to remember, that up to the not too distant past, hand me downs and within the home adjustments, featured large in the kilted wardrobe for many, most even. So exact fits, perfect length, etc.,were not serious issues and were never going to encourage the cookie cutter styles that we are used to today, it is a shame in a way as these inevitable variations and interpretations of style did make for some super kilt attire combinations. Even with my rather more fortunate kilted background, new attire was and in some ways still is, more the exception rather than the rule.

I suppose----and this is an observation ,not a criticism-------- given that most members here are starting from scratch with their kilt attire interest, it is quite understandable that they only know the modern catalog, cookie cutter, peas in the pod type mindset, but this way of kitting ourselves out does tend to narrow the mind more than somewhat when one is deciding what to buy and being sometimes hyper critical with pictures of kilted attire and particularly, those of the past. What appears to have been lost though, for understandable reasons, due to this, is the confidence to make appropriate KILT ATTIRE decisions to fit the occassion.

Jock
I just have to say I completely agree and I am extremely grateful that my first kilt and sporran were handed down from my father. The sporran is still a favourite of mine, and as happened when dad owned it, the kilt shrunk in my closet as they are want to do.

[OC Richard]

the bottom of the jacket, although rounded to accommodate the sporran, appears longer like a Saxon jacket.

One sees that fairly often in 19th century photos, though usually it's 'Day' tweed jackets rather than 'Evening' jackets that are like that. I could post, probably, a dozen vintage photos showing long jackets. But the style of the time, buttoned near the top and the front angling away, made room for the sporran even so.

I commented not too long ago that I've recently been seeing quite a few people wearing black Argyll jackets that are longer that the 'traditional' length, coming down to around the end of the cuff or a bit below. Seems to be a growing trend nowadays, don't know why.

[OC Richard]

And here are the jackets by The House of Edgar bearing different names from above (Argyll has plain cuff, Crail has slash cuff, Braemar has gauntlet cuff)

http://www.houseofedgar.com/acatalog/Kilt_Jackets.html

But as can be seen from that vintage catalogue, the term "Argyll" for a jacket with rounded bottom and gauntlet cuffs has been around since the 1930s at least.

[TheOfficialBren]

One sees that fairly often in 19th century photos, though usually it's 'Day' tweed jackets rather than 'Evening' jackets that are like that. I could post, probably, a dozen vintage photos showing long jackets. But the style of the time, buttoned near the top and the front angling away, made room for the sporran even so.

I commented not too long ago that I've recently been seeing quite a few people wearing black Argyll jackets that are longer that the 'traditional' length, coming down to around the end of the cuff or a bit below. Seems to be a growing trend nowadays, don't know why.

Ah! Got it. Thanks, Richard.

[CMcG]

I'm a little late to the party, but I'll still chip in. I have found my dress (black barathea, silver button) Argyll to be an ideal jacket for travel situations where luggage space is at a premium and there are kilt-worthy events at different levels of formality. This was the case when I went to Hong Kong for nine months and knew I would have two events to attend kilted: one was smart and the other was black tie. I've posted the pics before, but here they are again.

Garden party at the Chinese University of Hong Kong with the Vice-Chancellor on the right and an ex-pat Scottish professor on the left:


The Hong Kong Highlanders Burns Supper at the Hong Kong Club (I'm in the middle, in case it's hard to tell):


It's great, Nathan, that you are amassing such a well-rounded wardrobe, but Air Canada's (and other airlines?) recent move to reduce the baggage allowance from two down to one could be a real impediment to your sartorial undertakings! At least your dress Argyll has you covered

The other situation I like it for is when there are formal events during the day. Sure morning dress is about as common as hen's teeth in our neck of the woods, but one does see events that specifically call for formality before 6:00. If people are running around in tuxedos or tail coats during the day, I would go with the THCD choice for formal day wear, which is a dress Argyll.

Here is a picture of the bride and the groomsmen at a friend's wedding. He asked me to wear the kilt and said it must be black tie, so I busted out the dress Argyll to go with the other guys in their dinner jackets. I was instructed to wear the same (rented) shirt, tie, waistcoat, and shoes as the rest of the groosmen otherwise I probably would have worn a long tie. Yes those are rather thin cream hose, but I was still building up my kit at that point. I borrowed both kilt and socks from a friend

[Nathan]

What a great point about travel situations, Colin. Even if you're late to the party, it's always great to have you show up, sir!

In terms of the expanding wardrobe, I blame xmarks.

For years I did just fine with one kilt, two sporrans, two pairs of hose, a Prince Charlie, a converted tweed my mother made me and my regular wardrobe of pullovers and to be honest, I seldom wore the tweed.

Seeing all the fine examples of smart attire on here certainly encourages HKAS (Highland Kit Acquisition Syndrome). I can stop any time I want to....honest.

[CMcG]

... In terms of the expanding wardrobe, I blame xmarks.

For years I did just fine with one kilt, two sporrans, two pairs of hose, a Prince Charlie, a converted tweed my mother made me and my regular wardrobe of pullovers and to be honest, I seldom wore the tweed.

Seeing all the fine examples of smart attire on here certainly encourages HKAS (Highland Kit Acquisition Syndrome). I can stop any time I want to....honest.

But... but... why would anyone want to stop acquiring Highland attire?