Over doing it

[Nathan]

As we learn, we refine. At one point, I viewed formal Highland attire as a Prince Charlie coatee, period. Later I learned that there were other options for black tie and white tie in Highland Attire. I found out that black tie included the dress Argyll as well as the the Charlie and all of the doublets. I learned that for Highland white tie you could wear all of the above with the exception of the Argyll although some hold that a Prince Charlie can't be worn with white tie either.

So I thought I had it figured out. Black tie = Argyll, Charlie or Doublets. Scotty Thompson's book told me diced hose and buckled brogues were de rigeur and xmarks seemed to confirm that. Nice. Since I had been wearing a charlie for 20 years, I obtained a doublet, diced hose, and buckled shoes for the next chapter.

What prompted this thread was my encounter with an event that was less formal than any "black tie" event I had ever attended.

I was informed that a doublet would be considered over the top so that challenged my idea of "black tie" options. If I was lacking confidence, I would have just looked at the photos and arrived in uniform. On the contrary, I put it out to the rabble for two reasons:

Firstly, to check the advice I had received. If the Rabble (especially the Highland/Scottish constituency) had responded to this thread with a unanimous chorus of "black tie is black tie and the advice you received was daft". I would have happily waltzed into the event in my atypical yet traditional outfit armed with the knowledge that I was dressed appropriately even if everyone else was in the more popular and common choice, (many of them perhaps hired for the occasion). That's not what happened. I was advised by some like Jock, whom I may mildly antagonize form time to time but whose opinion on these matters I take quite seriously that my original advice was sound and that buckled shoes, tartan hose and a doublet would be overdressed for this level of event. Awesome. Taking good advice, once it has been corroborated as sound, doesn't betray a lack of confidence, it demonstrates a sense of couth and perhaps humility.

Secondly I composed the OP, to start a discussion around the broader question of black tie formality and its various levels. I always assume that if I have a conundrum, someone else out there might also be struggling with similar questions.

To a certain extent I succeeded in the first aim and got plenty of advice. Since it kept coming back to whether I should wear the doublet rather than how do we know when to draw the line of "over-doing it", my second aim was mildly less successful. The Rabble thus far has been free with their diverse advice, but I didn't go away with any nice rules of thumb such as, "If the ladies aren't in gowns, diced hose are a no go". Perhaps that's because life isn't so neat and tidy. You have to take a look around and make a judgement call.

From the initial question, other questions followed logically such as "How does one avoid looking like a kilt hire clone at a Prince Charlie event without looking like a clown?"

I hereby dub this the "clone vs. clown" dilemma. I shall think further on this issue, but headway has been made.

So was it all worthwhile? Leaving my confidence or lack there of out of the discussion (please and thanks), here's what I learned, so far, in this thread:

1) Sometimes solid coloured hose are the best choice for black tie. Prior to the thread, I thought they were an ok substitute if you couldn't afford or didn't want to pay for diced or tartan hose.
2) Sometimes regular dress oxfords are preferable to buckled brogues at a less formal black tie event.
3) Sometimes a dress Argyll might be a better choice than a Prince Charlie for less formal black tie. I previously thought of it as the ubiquitous pipe band jacket that was Jack of all trades and master of none.

Those are all very valuable lessons.

As a side note, we sometimes like to speak in generalities about the sensibilities on the various "sides of the pond". While these ideas are not completely unjustified, I don't personally find them helpful nor do I feel that the stereotype often fits me personally. I just wish we went to this trope less frequently but perhaps it's my own gripe.

So there you have it. My soapbox is still in good working order. How's yours?

[Jock Scot]

Nathan.

Well done laddie! No one can ever accuse you of not wanting to learn and then putting what you have learned to good use.

[MacRobert's Reply]

Another well-crafted reply Nathan!

[Nathan]

So, assuming ghillie and buckle brogues are not being considered for footwear, for this level of black tie, which of the following do you think would be best?

A) Highly polished black cap toed oxfords
B) Highly polished black brogues (USA: wingtips)
C) They are equally appropriate

[Jock Scot]

So, assuming ghillie and buckle brogues are not being considered for footwear, for this level of black tie, which of the following do you think would be best?

A) Highly polished black cap toed oxfords
B) Highly polished black brogues (USA: wingtips)
C) They are equally appropriate

I think option "C" would be absolutely fine for both occasions, but if it were me ,I would go with the polished brogues(providing that they are not too "clumpy" brogues are surprisingly versatile) for the pub night and go with the Highly polished oxfords for the Burns night.

[artificer]

So, assuming ghillie and buckle brogues are not being considered for footwear, for this level of black tie, which of the following do you think would be best?

A) Highly polished black cap toed oxfords
B) Highly polished black brogues (USA: wingtips)
C) They are equally appropriate

Of the three options I'd pick "A", although a shoe without the toe cap is more formal.

When in doubt, go with "The Guide".

ith:

[MacRobert's Reply]

Option C if they are both high shine and thin soles. Otherwise the pair that are.

[JohntheBiker]

I think that I would fall into the "C" camp on this one.

[creagdhubh]

Yep, "C" for me!

[Nathan]

I just browsed the photo galleries Nathan and failed to discriminate between the various events. Perhaps the hose was more varied at the last Burns Supper!

IMHO variety is the spice of life so while not overdoing it I would dare to be a wee bit different. There is a fine balance to be struck between conformity and originality; blending in and standing out; being sensitive to the expectations of others and not always going with the heard.

I may have missed it, but what does the invitation say about the dress code? If it is black tie, your doublet should be fine. If it needs to be dressed down then, as others have suggested, you could wear it partly unbuttoned or open. The chap with the jabot will look much more formal anyway.

This is how I wore mine recently.
Attachment 16226
But don't agonize too much and enjoy the event!

There's doublets and then there's doublets.

Your Balmoral, Nathan, is of the less ostentatious variety and effectively straddles different levels of formality. It is good ol' barathea, instead of velvet or silk; has a solid, subdued colour; and doesn't have lace cuffs sewn permanently into it, all of which combine to give you more wiggle room to dress it up or down for the event.

Has the Highland outfitter you wrote about actually seen your doublet? Speaking of Highland outfitters, have you read what Highland Clans has to say about the Balmoral? They are one of the few -- if not the only -- people who sell this style of doublet:

"The Balmoral Kilt Doublet is suitable for formal evening events, both black tie and white tie. It is traditionally made from Velvet, but is now also made in Barathea Wool.

...It is usually worn with a belt, and black bow tie (as shown but these items are not included).

...It can be worn less formally unbuttoned - in this case the belt would be worn round the kilt (under the jacket)."*

* my bold

Maybe give that a try and see how you like the look.

After giving this far too much thought and trying on a lot of combinations, I am leaning toward wearing the Balmoral doublet open with my plate belt buckle, seal sporran and either charcoal or bottle green hose.

Given that the doublet is barathea and that it is designed to be worn with a black bow tie rather than with a jabot, I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that it can be dressed down. After looking at the ensemble in the mirror and looking at MacRobert's fine photographic example, I think the solid coloured hose and plain polished dress shoes will keep it from going over the top.

I reserve the right to change my mind. ;)