Kilt to prom on Glee tonight in prime time!

[ohiopiper]

Well, yes and no.

I know, and most of us here probably know, that the vast majority of gay people do not cross-dress. They are simply attracted to people of the same gender. But if everyone in the world accepted reality as easily as this, there would be no discussion about this topic. What is at issue is the fact that a large segment of the population has no clue about either the LGBT community or highland dress. Pairing the two on a T.V. show did nothing to show either in a positive light. Instead of advancing the perception that gay/bi people are pretty much like everyone else, they chose to make him flambouyant. While we know that flambouyant folks are a small segment of the community, they played up the issue. Then throw in the kilt. Rather than address it as a traditional garment, it became a prop for the "gay guy."

I have no issue either way, as I don;t watch the show. If I had more time to watch television, I might. I merely commented on the principle behind their portrayal. They did themselves no favors on either front.

ETA: From the pictures I saw, the outfit really didn't look that bad. Not strictly traditional, of course, but the entertainment industry isn't overly concerned with "getting it right" all the time. I'm less concerned with how the individual wore the kilt than I am the message they sent to the target audience with a flawed starting position on both the character and the kilt.

[saxandpipes]

...They did themselves no favors on either front.

No, I agree. But I don't agree with the people that suggest the writers had some kind of agenda to intentionally sabotage the kilt and Highland culture. In the same way that they aren't trying to sabotage gay people. Kurt is not the first openly gay character on mainstream TV, but he is almost certainly the most flamboyant.

But, like I said before, he is just as entitled as anyone else to publicly get it wrong!

[ohiopiper]

We agree completely.

People in public have and will continue to improperly wear a kilt. I'm not sure I could have had a successful first outing with a kilt without the information gleaned from this site. There is much misinformation and false preconception about kilts simply because they are not an everyday item for most of us.

I also agree that the writers/producers did not intentionally sabotage their plot devices. They simply showed no respect for them (both character and kilt) by using them out of norm and simply as plot devices for ratings.

Which boils down to my earlier statement, they did themselves no favors on either front. I'm a straight middle aged guy, but also happen to think that ridiculing or stereotyping just for laughs shouldn't be encouraged.

[Semiomniscient]

True, but it's one thing to consider being thought of as gay (when you're not) as simply an insult. It's another to know that something you are is generally considered to be an insult.

When someone asks a straight kilt-wearing man if he's gay, he can simply say no, and inform the protagonist that they are being rude (in what ever manner they feel is deserving). A gay kilt-wearing man dealing with the same question... "well, yes, aah er, no, well, that has nothing to do with it..."

All I want is for people to stop thinking that gay people are so different...

I'm sorry that you have to suffer that. Not all gay people act a certain way. However, there are many gay people portrayed in media as hyper-emotional, effeminate, "flamboyant", etc. This is done through Glee, reality TV shows, the old Will and Grace show, etc. etc. That is the popular image of the "gay man" in most people's minds. If someone asks a man if they're gay, then their mind often goes to the "what am I doing to project that image?", "What is keeping me from exuding masculinity?" Which, while I understand the fact that this sort of thinking is the case bothers and upsets you, I think it's nevertheless accurate. When I guy has to answer his internal questions with the kilt, he has to also ask if it's just because the kilt is akin to a skirt, or if it's because of something else--in this case media portrayal.
Now really, I doubt that Kurt wearing a kilt on Glee is going to do this single-handedly. But kilties will still wonder.

So really, if I'm asked if I'm gay, it's not as simple as just responding "no". Besides, how many people really come up and ask people questions like that?

[rondo]

I think the writers chose Kurt to wear a kilt, because he is the most adventurous dresser. What would the[y] put him in... a tux?!
Michael

^This...also, I'm starting to feel that people are over-thinking the issue. It is just a television show. If people want to get upset about something how about genocide in Africa, whale hunting in Antarctica, starvation, war...

Really, a kid in a kilt, on a tv show is causing all this stir? Please...lets pause...is it that important?

Rondo

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Saxandpipes,may I say I feel that you dress very well in the kilt.You are a fine ambassador of both the kilt and the bagpipes.Apon viewing your public prophile,I have no hesitation in saying that in the pictures shown,you are either as well dressed or the best dressed in the kilt as any others shown in your albums.

I have commented before on this thread, but apon reading further and musing on this topic more,I would like to try to put my own personal view in a clearer manner;

The following applys,I feel,whether you are gay or not,and is adressed to all in general who may take the time to read it.Also please understand that when in the following,I mention wearing the kilt,I am meaning wearing it properly,with well presented hose,sporran,and the upper body attired in a way that compliments both the kilt and the heritage that it stands for.(I know that freedom of choice is available for all,and that's grand.But I feel some must realize that if you present yourself in public with ordinary socks down about your ankles,shoes that do not remotely resemble anything normaly accepted as kilt wear,T shirts that could just as easily be seen over some track pants,and no sporran,then you will leave even those with an understanding of highland wear guessing as to just what it is you are trying to dress to.Those competing in the heavy events excluded)Now to my point.....

Why do you wear the kilt? Is it for what others may think,or for what you hope THEY will think of you?If so, then how you will feel about yourself wearing it will be effected everytime you go out,depending on the reactions of who you meet.

Do you wear the kilt because you are Scottish or because of Scottish background in your family,or even because you admire this Scottish custom and wish to share in it?Then understand that not everybody will get it!Lets be frank,some folk will, due to their family upbringing,feel that you are something to laugh at,that your are effeminate.For heaven sakes not every one connects the kilt with manliness.BUT WE DO. Scottish people and their descendants have for centuries.This is our heritage.Wear it for that, and you will realize that WHAT THE OTHERS THINK MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

That includes some daft TV show writers who would not know the difference between a claidhmor and a clooty dumpling.We who wear the kilt correctly and for the right reasons are worlds apart from these folk.Do not even justify their ignorant and clumsy miss use of the kilt and how it should be worn with any reaction other than to have a wee chuckle to yourself whilst thinking 'take a look at that numpty!'Then step back out with your kilt on and your head high,with all of your families history and tradition carried proudly on your squared shoulders,because WE KNOW, and they HAVEN'T A CLUE.

We who care about Scottish heritage don't need a show on television to educate the world as to how good the kilt is,nor do we need how they may or may not portray the kilt to feel good about ourselves in it.Make no mistake,the kilt has long been worn in a brave,strong and correct manner by men both straight and gay for hundreds of years now,and no show like glee or any horde of immresionable TV viewers can change that,now or into the future.

P.s Hang in there Saxandpipes,I think you are aquitting yourself with honour.

[Cowher]

Saxandpipes: what would you think if I concluded by the way someone wore the kilt that they were really a straight man when in fact they were gay? Would it bother you?

[Morris at Heathfield]

Meh. The kilt is fairly well established as something worn by men of no particular sexual orientation. This forum, at 2005 threads so far (albeit some of them duplicates), is testament to that. As long as the audience for Glee intersects nicely with the audience for last year's Alice in Wonderland movie, this year's Smurf movie, and/or whatever else may be coming down the pike, I don't think there's much to be concerned about from this one episode.

Except that maybe more men will try to get away with wearing the kilt without baring their manly knees.

EEEeeek! and White socks! And Ghillie-Brogues! The horror!!!

He also appears to be wearing his kilt a bit low.

[Semiomniscient]

I am not slandering anyone. I am pointing out the dangers of our words, which even with the best intentions, can be (indeed, taken out of context), misconstrued, or simply hurtful.

I will say again what I said during the deliberation process:

I stand by by post. The comments are hateful.

Anyone who has a problem with MY words is simply not getting the point. That words are powerful, and (even with the "best intentions") can cause a lot of damage. They all fail to see what kind of effect reading this forum could have on a young gay kid who might be interested in wearing the kilt, and joining what is otherwise a fantastic community here.

Perhaps, now that the forum is reopened people can take the opportunity to clarify their thoughts, rewrite, apologise for any misunderstanding, or simply keep quiet.

Just because you have gay friends and can say what your want to around them, doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful about what you say, when people from outside have the opportunity to listen.

His comments weren't hateful. You construed them to be offensive--there's a difference. When people disagree with you and your worldview, it doesn't make them hateful. To write that they are isn't however slander--but it might be libel. You want others to consider what they say carefully so that they don't hurt your feelings, but whenever you besmirch the name of a minister by taking his written words out of context and construe them to be in your terms "hateful", then you begin to actually interfere with the man's living--not to mention his personal honor.

[Bugbear]

Saxandpipes: what would you think if I concluded by the way someone wore the kilt that they were really a straight man when in fact they were gay? Would it bother you?

I don't think it was in this thread, but somewhere I commented that my lady friends complain that I'm not "swishy" (enough.

Oh well...

Can't win for losing, don't wear kilts anymore either.
* edit:
Hmmm, I guess it was in this thread.

It's strange, Tobus, my lady friends, at least the ones who know I am one of the LGBT folk, complain that I am not "swishy," or what ever term you want to use, and that many of their other gay friends are bland and boring like me. I guess it's a regional thing. * yawn *

I kind of understand what you all are saying, though.