Too Traditional?

[Bugbear]

Do you mean tartans and tweed? Tweed is rather less area specific than tartan, historically speaking. Whilst tartan is/was regarded as specifically Scottish with very specific Clan connections, since Victorian times anyway and the military before that (although that is not strictly true these days), tweed was a general term and the wool mills of Yorkshire, Lancashire, Gloucestershire and other parts of the UK did and still do, in places, produce tweed. Harris Tweed on the other hand is very specific to some of the Western Isles of Scotland.

Thanks, Jock. I understand a little better now.

[Joshua]

I may not dress as traditional as many, but that has more to do with my climate than anything. Our temperatures regularly fall around 80*F (26*C to my Celsius friends), and we are LUCKY to have 50*F (10* C) weather on a regular basis. Provided we do, I dress as appropriately as possible.

In Dunedin Florida during St. Patrick's day this year (link to pics if interested), it was 75*F and I wore a long sleeve shirt, sleeves rolled up, no tie... and I was quite comfortable despite several miles of walking outdoors. My hose were scrunched, mostly again due to the heat. Wasn't "traditional" per se, but was comfortable and (at least I thought) well put-together. I find myself wearing polo shirts and short-sleeved button-up shirts just as much if not more, especially so when the weather gets unbearably hot.

If I lived further North and we had a more temperate, cooler climate, I may have worn a tie, perhaps a vest, who knows? But I was comfy.

By that utilitarian logic, there is a good chance my kilts will be mothballed this summer. In the warm of Florida summers, a pair of summerweight slacks or shorts does, in my opinion, significantly trump 8-9 yards of heavy fabric for comfort... and a thin pair of wicking fabric dress socks stay much cooler than thick woolen hose. My casual kilt is quite ill-fitting now despite moving the velcro inward enough to fit, so it only gets wear when I'm in the house or walking the dogs...

[creagdhubh]

To turn away from the (fascinating) subject of ninjas and reiterate the original question, with some photographic help: could any of the following images be too traditional for a non-Scot (by blood, by nationality, or both)? Too traditional for a younger person? Too traditional for a newbie kilt wearer?

These images are of clan chiefs, nobility and VIPs, who I figure have a lot of traditional experience. Leaving aside the feathers (of course), would these be good images for a young, new to kilts, non-Scot to follow as examples for how to dress for a Highland games in mild weather?




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Yes!!! Considering some of the photos you posted are of Macpherson Chieftains and my Chief, Cluny-Macpherson, who I know personally and have admired their attire for a very long time. In my opinion, wonderful examples of traditional Highland dress.

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

O.C.R.

Many Macpherson's wear that tweed. I seem to recall that a large amount of tweed was woven in that style to make a "Clan order". I suspect it is limited to the Clan and at a guess it probably is only available from a single source. No doubt our Macpherson expert will chip in before long and give us the true low down on the matter.

Yes you are correct, Jock. It is known as 'Cluny's tweed' and contains the colours of the Macpherson hunting tartan. I own a jacket and waistcoat in this tweed. It is only availble at Hugh Macpherson's in Edinburgh. It was first designed in the 1960's by Hugh Macpherson himself. Many Macphersons prefer wearing this tweed in their jackets and waistcoats for day attire.

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

Also, the "man in the center" and the "man on the right" are leaders of the Clan Macpherson, to include the gentleman on the left, Euan Macpherson of Glentruim, who is now deceased. My Chief, Sir William Alan Macpherson of Cluny and Blairgowrie, TD, is in the center, and Alastair Macpherson of Pitmain is on the right.

The Clan Macpherson is also known as 'the clan of the three brethern,' which refers to the three leading branches and families of the Clan Macpherson. Our Chief and the other two Chieftains, are direct descendents of the original 'three brethern.'

Cheers,

[lukeyrobertson]

I am relatively new to kilt wearing. From my experience I find the traditional dress works well for spiffier occasions in my context (church, symphony, banquets...). Most of the time however, I think THCD is "over-dressed" for my context and in some cases just "out of place". So I've learned to tone it down a little and save the glitz for more spiffy events or where THCD is expected to be the norm. What does this mean for me? Depending on circumstance.... no flashes/garters, no SD, waistcoat--no jacket, no ghillies, and ocassionally, no tie. My experience is that the tartan or solid wool kilt is always eye-catching and smart. Wearing the kilt instead of dress pants always knocks the look up a good peg or too.

[ForresterModern]

Very interesting that the man in the centre and the man on the right are wearing jackets made of the same identical fabric. Maybe they use the same tailor??

Same tweed, maybe the same tailor, but different jacket styles, with the center more a simple contemporary style (short lapels, no epaulets, pocket or cuff adornment) while the right gentleman is wearing a Braemar style with longer lapels, epaulets, adorned pockets and PC style cuffs. Both look great.

[creagdhubh]

Same tweed, maybe the same tailor, but different jacket styles, with the center more a simple contemporary style (short lapels, no epaulets, pocket or cuff adornment) while the right gentleman is wearing a Braemar style with longer lapels, epaulets, adorned pockets and PC style cuffs. Both look great.

Both jackets are made by Hugh Macpherson's shop in Edinburgh, as I stated previously, this the only place that makes the tweed, as well as different jacket styles, which of course is a personal decision made by the commissioner. I have seen 'Cluny's Tweed' in all sorts of styles for Highland day attire.

[MacGumerait]

Also, the "man in the center" and the "man on the right" are leaders of the Clan Macpherson, to include the gentleman on the left, Euan Macpherson of Glentruim, who is now deceased. My Chief, Sir William Alan Macpherson of Cluny and Blairgowrie, TD, is in the center, and Alastair Macpherson of Pitmain is on the right.

The Clan Macpherson is also known as 'the clan of the three brethern,' which refers to the three leading branches and families of the Clan Macpherson. Our Chief and the other two Chieftains, are direct descendents of the original 'three brethern.'

Cheers,

creagdhubh ,

Great pic of the leaders of a great clan , The Clan Macpherson !

Very interesting piece of historical info as well regarding the " the three brethern " .

I had a few of my kilted friends over this evening for a small get together ( plus a few ales ) and a few of them brought up the subject of the pic of the Macpherson leaders , so we got on Xmarks and checked it out , all were impressed !

A couple of them asked about the difference between a Clan Chief and a Clan Chieftain as they didn't understand , so I explained it to them . This got me to thinking and the reason for this post .

Given that we have a picture of the Macpherson Clan Chief and the two Chieftains might provide a perfect scenario to help inform some folks of the difference between the titles of Chief and Chieftain .

I understand the difference between the titles , but thought it would not be proper and somewhat impolite for me to explain it here in a post . I thought perhaps this sharing of info would be more appropriate coming from you , as the visual aide to the explanation would be a picture of your Clan leaders not my Clan .

Just thought it might be a good teachable moment for some folks , I am sure many already know this info but some may not .

Best Regards ! Mike

[CMcG]

It depends, on what sort of "mild" weather we are talking about, Scots mild or Texas mild. It would also depend where the games were to be held and whether he was officiating in any way....

I meant mild in the more general sense of term, as in neither hot nor cold and no rain but not too sunny. Basically weather where a tweed jacket and waistcoat with a Balmoral bonnet would be comfortable, if one chose to wear that.

Yes!!! Considering some of the photos you posted are of Macpherson Chieftains and my Chief, Cluny-Macpherson, who I know personally and have admired their attire for a very long time. In my opinion, wonderful examples of traditional Highland dress.

Jock's point about spectator vs. official is interesting. Often on Xmarks, we see pictures of lords, chiefs, pipe majors (when they aren't piping), and other VIPs held up as examples of THCD, but without necessarily considering their positions...

---------------------------------------------------

Here's a few more pics to consider. Would any of these be too traditional for the aforementioned "less-traditional" guy i.e. the non-Scot (by blood, nationality, or both), who is younger, and/or relatively new to kilts? Put another way, at an event where the following outfits would be at an appropriate level of formality, could our hypothetical young visitor to Scotland be perceived as trying too hard to be traditional, if he were so attired?

Formal evening wear (black tie):

Imagine our imaginary young man was attired like Gordon Walker (third from the right), while the majority people at an event were attired like the other fellows in this image:


This one is from Kinloch Anderson, listed as appropriate for "more formal occasion"


Imagine this one with regular buttons, rather than the Duke's characteristic salmon ones:


And a few miscellaneous images:





Day wear:

The following two images are clan chiefs on official business. Let's imagine our young visitor to Scotland was at a daytime event, where Highland attire was requested, and he was part of this official business i.e. not just a spectator. Could these outfits be too traditional for him and best left to the chiefs? Put another way, would it better for this young fellow to dress like the guy on the left of the first image (Xmarker acaig) than the chief on the right?


How about this gentleman? I think his style is awesome, but I'm not sure that just anyone could pull it off...