An X Marks tartan

[M. A. C. Newsome]

By the way, if people are thinking about group purchases, the "goal" to shoot for (in my case) would be 30 yards. If I can put together an order for 30 yards, I can have my mill weave it double width (that is, 54" wide) at the same cost per yard.

In other words, the real cost to you would be cut in half, as far as the cloth goes. For a four-yard kilt, only two yards would need to be purchased. For an eight yard kilt, only four, etc.

That means the cost of one of my box pleated kilts would drop to $350 -- more in the ballpark that most can afford, I would think. But a lot more people would have to want kilts, or at least cloth.

But I agree. Step one is to determine a tartan -- and really we can vote all we want, it ultimately is Hank's choice, since it is his forum. Once we have the tartan, then it's out there. Interprising individuals would then be able to take it upon themselves to offer whatever products they could in it.

Aye,
Matt

[beerbecue]

Good bit of advice Matt.

I agree double-width would be the way to go.....

[Colin]

Bear says he turns out one kilt a day. OK, his four-yard kilts cost about $150 USA. If there's $50 of materials int here, then he's building s machine-stitched kilt for around $100. I could be ten or twenty bucks off in my estimates here, sure.... but not a hundred dollars off, eh?

Just a bit of a correction there Alan. Bear's 4 yard kilts are $150 Canadian not American. I think Bear and Rocky will both let you know that the cost of the material for a 4 yard is more than $50. That may be the case with material from local sources, but both of those companies are importing the PV fabric from England (duty added to the cost), so I highly doubt they are making $60-$100 in labour for each 4 yard kilt.

[Alan H]

I agree. Time to chill a bit. Yesterday was slow at work so I had some time to look stuff up on the web and yakk here at X Marks. Today is busy, so I won't have that time.

I have a potential source for $129 kilts in the X Marks tatan. They wouldn't be the quality of the custom jobs by any stretch of the imagination, and as suspected, they're made in Pakistan. I'm looking into whether the distributor will give me information about the factory so I can look up if there's any record of worker abuse in that factory. I won't participate in getting an X Marks kilt from a sweatshop. I'm on the fence about whether getting an X marks kilt from Pakistan AT ALL is cool. If things work out that topic will come up in conversation again in a while, so no need to get hot about it right now.

Other options are being pursued, and that's a great bit of information, Matt. If you can get 30 yards then you can get double-width, which would halve the material costs.

At any rate, slow and easy does it.... Agreed!

[Alan H]

Bear says he turns out one kilt a day. OK, his four-yard kilts cost about $150 USA. If there's $50 of materials int here, then he's building s machine-stitched kilt for around $100. I could be ten or twenty bucks off in my estimates here, sure.... but not a hundred dollars off, eh?

Just a bit of a correction there Alan. Bear's 4 yard kilts are $150 Canadian not American. I think Bear and Rocky will both let you know that the cost of the material for a 4 yard is more than $50. That may be the case with material from local sources, but both of those companies are importing the PV fabric from England (duty added to the cost), so I highly doubt they are making $60-$100 in labour for each 4 yard kilt.

The $100 is just a very, very general guesstimate. It's not $25 and it's not $175, USA greenbacks. It's probably rather less than $100, though for their sake I hope it's not.

[Mike1]

I've a pal in Scotland that recently purchased some tartan for an arisaid from a supplier in england. She was quoted £7.50/metre for a lightweight material and £12.50/metre for heavyweight. So, we are talking approximately $14.18 and $23.68, at the current rate of exchange. No duty or shipping costs, obviously. I've asked her to contact her source, to get us more data and to see if they might be interested in possibly exporting material to the Colonies. I'll pass along whatever I can learn.

Alan, how do these prices stack up against the ones you've collected thus far?

Let's turn off the afterburners and slow down a little. If the project is going to fly at all, it is going to take TIME.

Thanks for adding another voice of reason, Doc. I agree, wholeheartedly. Rome wasn't built in a day.

As a possible scenario, I ordered material from Lochcarron the first week of October and it was mid-February before it was finally at my kiltmaker's door, in Cali. I am aware that Lochcarron had no material when I ordered, as they had just scrapped a run, so 4 months is likely going to be a reasonable wait for a mill to crank something out.

I'm sorry, but I still feel it is unrealistic to expect Rocky, Bear, Matt, et al, to bankroll a large material purchase. Let's face it, these fellows are trying to remain competitive in the market and supply their customer base with a fairly-priced product, so to ask them to finance this project is asking a bit much. I've no doubt that each of them are willing to help out with the project, but investing big dollars into a special project? Everybody has limits to what they can do.

Matt, if you see this, the package arrived yesterday. Who is the gent in those brochure photos, BTW? Thanks for taking care of me as you did!

[Thistle Stop]

I've a pal in Scotland that recently purchased some tartan for an arisaid from a supplier in england. She was quoted £7.50/metre for a lightweight material and £12.50/metre for heavyweight. So, we are talking approximately $14.18 and $23.68, at the current rate of exchange. No duty or shipping costs, obviously. I've asked her to contact her source, to get us more data and to see if they might be interested in possibly exporting material to the Colonies. I'll pass along whatever I can learn.

Alan, how do these prices stack up against the ones you've collected thus far?

Let's turn off the afterburners and slow down a little. If the project is going to fly at all, it is going to take TIME.

Thanks for adding another voice of reason, Doc. I agree, wholeheartedly. Rome wasn't built in a day.

As a possible scenario, I ordered material from Lochcarron the first week of October and it was mid-February before it was finally at my kiltmaker's door, in Cali. I am aware that Lochcarron had no material when I ordered, as they had just scrapped a run, so 4 months is likely going to be a reasonable wait for a mill to crank something out.

I'm sorry, but I still feel it is unrealistic to expect Rocky, Bear, Matt, et al, to bankroll a large material purchase. Let's face it, these fellows are trying to remain competitive in the market and supply their customer base with a fairly-priced product, so to ask them to finance this project is asking a bit much. I've no doubt that each of them are willing to help out with the project, but investing big dollars into a special project? Everybody has limits to what they can do.

Matt, if you see this, the package arrived yesterday. Who is the gent in those brochure photos, BTW? Thanks for taking care of me as you did!

I know I said this before, but it's important so I will say it again. When you are making enquiries about having tartan woven (in any kind of fibre), be sure to specify that it must be 2-over-2 twill weave, not plain weave. Otherwise, you will not get material that will be suitable for kilting. And it needs to be fairly heavy in weight too.

Keep in mind that the price per metre or yard for a stock tartan may be quite different than for custom-made tartan, and some weavers will not do made-to-order tartan at all. Compare apples to apples when getting prices.

[Alan H]

I've a pal in Scotland that recently purchased some tartan for an arisaid from a supplier in england. She was quoted £7.50/metre for a lightweight material and £12.50/metre for heavyweight. So, we are talking approximately $14.18 and $23.68, at the current rate of exchange. No duty or shipping costs, obviously. I've asked her to contact her source, to get us more data and to see if they might be interested in possibly exporting material to the Colonies. I'll pass along whatever I can learn.

Alan, how do these prices stack up against the ones you've collected thus far?

Those are darned good prices! Whoa... I think we'd be very, very interested in finding out about that supplier! thanks Mike, absolutely ask about that source, and thank you!

Cyndi, just a question for you. How completely necessary is the 2 x 2 twill thing (I have no idea what it means) for kiltmaking cloth? I mean, obviously a lot of non-wool kilts are made from cloth that is wildly different from this. USA Kilts makes Philabeg casuals in PV and cotton and other blends. Freedom Kilts and UK and Pittsburgh kilts make their clothing out of non-wool fabrics and so on. So if a tartan-patterned wool cloth were available and it was of a sufficient weight and was reasonably tightly woven and had an attractive hand, but wasn't actually "2-over-2 twill weave", how much of an issue would that be?

I'm asking because I really don't know.

Would it make it so that the pleats had to be ironed a lot because they wouldn't hold as well, perhaps? Maybe the issue would be a "care" one. Or perhaps it's an appearrance thing...non "2-over-2 twill weave" cloth is more rough-looking, not as finely finished. Or maybe it's much more important than that and in fact a cloth that's not 2-over-2 twill will just look awfully horribly dreadful, hang like a dishwashing rag and so on.

Of course, almost certainly ANY wool kilt will have to be dry-cleaned. we need to remember that.

What say?
Alan

[Mike1]

Those are darned good prices! Whoa... I think we'd be very, very interested in finding out about that supplier! thanks Mike, absolutely ask about that source, and thank you!

OK, here's your requested information - You are going to be contacting N. Batley, Ltd.. The suggestion was made that you do not use the online request form, rather call the indicated phone number and ask to speak to Gary, in Sales.

Again, just for purposes of comparison, what mills have you already contacted and what prices have you been quoted?

[Thistle Stop]

Cyndi, just a question for you. How completely necessary is the 2 x 2 twill thing (I have no idea what it means) for kiltmaking cloth? I mean, obviously a lot of non-wool kilts are made from cloth that is wildly different from this. USA Kilts makes Philabeg casuals in PV and cotton and other blends. Freedom Kilts and UK and Pittsburgh kilts make their clothing out of non-wool fabrics and so on. So if a tartan-patterned wool cloth were available and it was of a sufficient weight and was reasonably tightly woven and had an attractive hand, but wasn't actually "2-over-2 twill weave", how much of an issue would that be?

I'm asking because I really don't know.

Would it make it so that the pleats had to be ironed a lot because they wouldn't hold as well, perhaps? Maybe the issue would be a "care" one. Or perhaps it's an appearrance thing...non "2-over-2 twill weave" cloth is more rough-looking, not as finely finished. Or maybe it's much more important than that and in fact a cloth that's not 2-over-2 twill will just look awfully horribly dreadful, hang like a dishwashing rag and so on.

The twill weave refers to the way the threads are interwoven. Instead of one weft thread crossing over one warp thread (plain weave), there are two threads crossing over two threads in a staggered pattern. This gives the characteristic diagonally-corded look that twill has. Denim -- not the 'fashion' denim, but good old-fashioned Levi's type denim -- is another example of a twill-woven fabric. Tartan will not look the same, wear the same, or drape the same in a plain weave as in a twill weave, and a kilt made in a plain weave would just look 'wrong' even to the untrained eye.



The type of weave should not make any difference to the price, but you do want to make sure it's not a problem to the weaver to produce it that way (unlikely to be a problem, but best to put all your requirements up front).