Attitudes To The Kilt.

[KMacT]

If you ask me, "Being Scottish" is not a genetically inherited thing any more. "Being Scottish",or "Being French" or "Being Japanese" or "Being Mongolian" is a function of where your interests and heart and soul lies. My allegiance is to the United States of America. My heritage lies spread out all over Europe and Canada. My INTEREST and my heart lies in things Celtic.

Good points, all. I would add, though, that one definition of "Being Scottish",or "Being French" or "Being Japanese" is a function of citizenship laws of individual countries. I am Canadian, in this respect, because the Canadian goovernment says I am. No more, no less. It really isn't my doing at all. This is generaly true of all citizens around the world. Each country makes it own rules and decides who will be it's citizens. But as you correctly point out, when one is speaking of ethnicity or connection to a culture, there is really no way to consistently distinguish one person from another.

Kevin

[philibeg]

An interesting twist to a twisted thread....this place never ceases to amaze me!

[highlander_Daz]

cool point Alan, someone born in Scotland in the eyes of the law isnt a Scot , they are British, so I think that a Scot is someone whos alligience is to Scotland, even being born in Scotland doesnt make you a Scot, prime minister Tony Blair is a good exmple he was born in Edinburgh but he does everything to hide his celtic roots and even had elocoution lessons to get that "neutral" accent to widen his voter appeal, plus the supports the English football team. clearly hes not a Scot.
HM the late queen mother was the daughter of the Earl of Strathmore, she was born in London but is regarded as a Scot, and is still held in esteem in Scotland. There is no true test you can take for being a Scot, being born here helps your case, having and accent helps too but I know many asian and Chinese shop keepers who have Scots accents but are proud to be asian or chinese despite the accent ! .
to play for the Scottish football team you can go back to your Grandparents being born here, several scottish footballing "greats" were not born here.
My own view is that you need some kind of connection, family or an interest, in all things Scottish. Scotlands always thrived on immigrants, you get as many Irish names here as scots, and lets not forget that William Wallace was of Welsh descent !

[M. A. C. Newsome]

There is a friend of mine who is black and lives locally. He is descended from a Scot named Russel and keeps threatening to get a Russel tartan kilt -- I told him to let me know when he is ready! Now looking at him, he is rather light skinned....

...but I have another story from several years ago at the Stone Mountain, GA, Highland Games. This tall, very dark skinned black man comes up to our tartan information tent and asks to see the MacNeil tartan. Sure, I say, and flip open my swatch book and show it to him. As he's looking at it, this elderly white man (obviously a native Georgian by his accent) comes up next to him and asks, "Is your last name MacNeil?"

"Yeah," the black man says, "Yeah it is."

"Well mine is, too," says the white man. "Do you know what that means?"

"Naw," the black man says, looking down on him suspiciously. "What does that mean?"

"It means," says the old white fellow, "that my ancestors probably owned your ancestors." (My eyebrows are raised at this point as I listen in to the conversation).

"Naw," says the black man, shaking his head, "Naw, I don't think so. My grandfather Robert MacNeil came here from Scotland and married a black woman he met in the US." Then he looks at me, "So can I wear this tartan?"

I laughed, as this man seems to have closer connections with Scotland than either I or this old Georgia man. "Yes," I said, "you certain can."

So it just goes to show, you can never know what someone's heritage might be, and I never doubt or ask questions when an unlikely-looking person comes up to me and asks, "What's my tartan?"

Aye,
Matt

[highlander_Daz]

many Black people here in Britain are called Campbell, I wouldnt like to speculate why, but its a common name for Black people

[Mike n NC]

I've sat and read this thread for several days now and I finally gots to add my 2 cents worth.

I'm originally from a small mountain community in east TN with relatives all over the mountains of VA, TN and NC. This area is unique, racially, for a couple of different reasons. Matt, living and doing research in this area can, most likely, vouch for this.

1. These highland areas are known to be an old settling place for the Ulsters.

2. Most every familly native to this area is in some way related to the native american peoples that lived in this area.

3. Some parts, not all, of this area were very racially forgiving and accepted the mixing of black and white. This was especially true in the eastern regions of TN.

All of the above I know to be doccumented from research my grandfather had done when I was a child. I still have the "book" that came from it. Both sides of my family have doccumented evidence of lineage that includes: native america, black, scot, irish, welsh and english.

DISCLAIMER!! Not to be confused with fact, the following are "my opinion and only my opinion". Should anyone find any of these thoughts or examples offending, don't worry, you'll get over it.

Had I been brought up to feel that every other race (i.e. black, spanish, even scottish for that matter) was inferior to mine or different from mine, I might share some of Mac's feelings but that wouldn't make those ideas right. I'd just be another biggot.

While tracing my family tree into the british isles through both the MacQueen and Austin links, I find that I can claim relation to almost every other scottish name (I stopped keeping track after several hundred). This is mostly due to the migration of the MacQueens into the central highlands and thier association with the Chattans. So Mac, get over your bad self, we're proabaly related.

Should anyone, ANYONE, ever invite me to go "play with the little girls", or the children, for the way I am dressed, they would promptly be invited to take a much better look at the sky. Usually when they once again opened their eyes. I have, on occasion, suffered the comments of some individuals who consider themselves "Clan purests" regarding the "Ulster" nature of my heritage. Most were ignored though a couple were invited to visit the devil in his homeplace.

I choose the tartan I wear for one or both of thise reasons, I like the look of it or it has some special meaning to me. Unlike Jimmy, I do have and will wear a Black Watch tartan kilt but wearing it is almost a reverent experience knowing that I am donning something of one of the most famous and highly decorated military units in the world. Having served, with pride and lost blood, for over 20 years in the U. S. Navy, I fully understand the nature of their military service. Bottom line? I allow no-one to dictate what I wear. I like to think of it as my American independence showing through, how's that for tradition?

End of opinions...

Because of some of the above I choose to be a member of the Chattan Alliance rather than a particular Clan or Family.

Tartans that I currently wear?
Black Watch, honoring the Ladies from Hell
Scottish National, honoring all of Scotland
MacQueen, family
Austin, family
Confederate Memorial, I'm from the south after all...
Edzell, my service in the Navy
Thompson, as decended from MacTavish, another family branch
MacLeod (the loud one), for my son (stepson but my son for all intent and purpose)

With certain ethnocentric views set aside, this has been a most enjoyable thread and much thanks to Matt and others for their research and input. I have learned a great deal from them.

Mike

[Burnout]

Although I don't often contribute, I try to stay current with the discussions here. This thread has been great. It has been both enlightening and yet even a little bit disturbing. Not so much from the details but that some would attach such gravity to the issue. I have owned a kilt for some years which I wear only occasionaly. I have always tried my best to wear it respectful of the tradition associated with it. I must say I've learned much about that from this board. However, from the colorful discussion put forth here, I'm made to ponder the following:

My connection to the highlands is on my mothers side and remote by several generations. I don't speak gaelic nor do I eat haggis. When I wear my kilt, I can only conclude that the purists will regard this as an afront and brigadoonery. Also it would seem that all men with only tenuous ties to Scotland who decide to wear a tartan kilt are also practicing a form of brigadoonery. To extend this a bit further, I might even conclude that lowlanders who wear highland attire are committing a form of brigadoonery.

I'm guess I'm trying to categorize myself. While I understand and appreciate the general principals of the purists, I know I can never be one. For instance, personally, I would never presume to wear a clan or even district tartan that I had no connection to regardless of the history... but I wouldn't care if someone else did.

I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with the fact that I'm just a mongrel that likes to enjoy the kilt once in a while and, like it or not, when I do I'll always be a brigadoonist. But a respectful, traditional, brigadoonist. LOL!

[bubba]

Very well put Mike. If we really thought about it we're all likely related to some degree if you go back far enough, why, there might even be a Campbell in my ancestry! Around here folks generally don't comment on my kilts at all and the very few that have have been positive, except one that was looking for a fight to start with, but I discount drunken cowboy wannabes. I wear what I like as a rule. I have Black Watch, MacNeil of Barra, Hamilton, MacKinlay, Gordon Dress, and a couple generic tartan pattern plaids. The wholeentitlement deal is all well and good, but really isn't such an old tradition and all traditions change over time to suit conditions and situations.

[KMacT]

I believe that *part* of the problem some people have with the "entitlement" issue is the way it is expressed. Often, in these fora, we hear that no one needs to be entitled to wear any particular tartan (with the few exceptions that I am disregarding in this post). Then someone replies that he or she *is* entitled (usually because of family connections) and that person takes offence that someone is suggesting they have no entitlement - a dispute breaks out. Sadly, in many cases these two views are not necessarily inconsistent.

I prefer to speak of how I am entitled to wear the MacTavish tartan (my family name), the Maple Leaf tartan (I'm a Canadian), the Ontario tartan (where I live), the Nova Scotia tartan (where I attended school)... You get the point. But I am also *entitled* to wear pretty much any other tartan as well. Some because I like the look of them, some because I appreciate the tradition they represent, but all worn with respect.

Am I entitled? Certainly. Is everyone else. Also certainly.

Kevin

[Scotus]

I would like to confess that I am guilty of brigadoonery, if I understand that word correctly; however, I have not repented of it. I listen to Tannahill Weavers and Silly Wizard, I love the musical "Brigadoon," I am addicted to "Monarch of the Glen," I attend Bonnie Rideout concerts, I visit Scotland, and I love visiting old castles in the Highlands.

I have seen the word used three times in this thread now. I'm not really sure what it means, but I suspect that I am guilty of brigadoonery.