An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

**ForresterModern** · 10th January 12, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Alan H

For heavens sake, guys...the man has his opinion. Quit hounding him about it.

Also.

I think we all should descend upon Jocks home, having plotting the whole invasion with the help of Mrs. Jock such that he has no reasonable means of excape, and squire him off to some stream in the vicinity and catch some fish. Then we go back to his house, broil the the fish, drink some whisky, and tell lies.

***

Have fly rods/reels, weights 2 through 9, and waders, ready to travel.

**BCAC** · 10th January 12, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer

I for one found nothing the slightest bit offensive in your post.

I think this perspective is one of the most difficult bridges we try to cross on this forum. Would you say that the culture is significantly different in the South of France, where you are now, from that of the Highlands of Scotland? I note the distance from Nimes to Inverness to be just over 1000 miles. How many cultural differences in that span? Highland Scot? Lowland Scot? English? Parisian? From where I grew up in North Carolina that same distance would get me up to the northeast corner of the United States or, heading west, about halfway across the country.

This sheer size difference makes,..., well, a difference. Scotland will fit into the United States more than 125 times. It will fit nearly twice into my home state of North Carolina, which has nearly twice the population. If you accept that there are differences between Highland and Lowland Scots, surely it must be more than evident that there are probably differences between Eastern North Carolinians (by the beautiful coastline) and Western North Carolinians (in the beautiful mountains), and then it must be really, really evident that there must be cultural differences between those same North Carolinians and the rest of the United States. We share a national identity, but the very idea that Americans could share a cultural identity is downright silly.

Additionally, much of North American is not populated by families who have been here for many generations. Sure there are parts of the country where this is true, but there are a great number of people who's immigrant ancestors came just last century. And the way the country was settled, even from the beginning, there were pockets of people from the same country living together. They lived in the same neighborhoods in cities or started churches in more remote, rural areas, continuing parts of their cultural heritage. Just because by the time our ancestors arrived, the people living in Scotland no longer thought of themselves as Picts, Normans, etc., doesn't mean that those who left Scotland no longer thought of themselves as Scottish. You yourself say you couldn't do it. So they saw themselves as Germans, Irishmen, Italians. And their children then though of themselves as German-Americans (i.e. Americans of German descent) and so on.

You might just have hit the nail right on the head, there.

I've lived in France for a while now and it's difficult here as well to find someone who will say he's FRENCH first and foremost. They're all fiercly proud of their region or town but most of them have an independance mouvement (even the regions smack in the middle of the country).

One instance comes to mind. When the French football team won the world cup in 1998 there were thousands (if not millions) of people on the main street in Paris to celebrate and in the middle there's this one guy waving his Brittany flag. He couldn't even be French that day!

I was just thinking that someone should say "I'm from xland (wherever xland may be), my parents are from xland, my grandparents are from xland so I'm a proud xlander"

**artificer** · 10th January 12, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by BCAC

You might just have hit the nail right on the head, there.

I've lived in France for a while now and it's difficult here as well to find someone who will say he's FRENCH first and foremost. They're all fiercly proud of their region or town but most of them have an indipendance mouvement (even the regions smack in the middle of the country).

One instance comes to mind. When the French football team won the world cup in 1998 there were thousand (if not millions) of people on the main street in Paris to celebrate and in the middle there's this one guy waving his Brittany flag. He couldn't even be French that day!

No need to worry about that situation in 2010, huh?

ith:

**BCAC** · 10th January 12, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by artificer

No need to worry about that situation in 2010, huh?

ith:

You're right, of course, but if I say that to a Frenchman he will reply that they have at least won it once (inferring that my country (Scotland) have NEVER won it).

**artificer** · 10th January 12, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by BCAC

You're right, of course, but if I say that to a Frenchman he will reply that they have at least won it once (inferring that my country (Scotland) have NEVER won it).

Well, to win you are first required to qualify...

Seriously though, what is it with Scottish Football?

ith:

**BCAC** · 10th January 12, 02:08 PM

Scott,

This is sooo far off topic that it's unreal!

**Downunder Kilt** · 10th January 12, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Alan H

For heavens sake, guys...the man has his opinion. Quit hounding him about it.

Also.

I think we all should descend upon Jocks home, having plotting the whole invasion with the help of Mrs. Jock such that he has no reasonable means of excape, and squire him off to some stream in the vicinity and catch some fish. Then we go back to his house, broil the the fish, drink some whisky, and tell lies.

I am with you Alan (BTW does broil mean something like BBQ?

)

**Mike M.** · 10th January 12, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sir William

We are so regionally and ethnically diverse that we have no distinctively national American dress, food, music, art, or even history. Consequently, we embrace our individual ethnic heritage instead. THAT is how Americans identify themselves.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Americans have the whole Colonial/Revolutionary War heritage, our Civil War, and the whole Wild West to work with. 20th century popular culture may not have been highbrow, but it was pretty good for a long time. Not to mention the classic American idea that anyone can become one if he is willing to adopt our way of thinking. We're not as bereft as you might think.

That being said, I think there are a lot of Americans who have an affection for other cultures. The Scots among them.

**SlackerDrummer** · 10th January 12, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mike M.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Americans have the whole Colonial/Revolutionary War heritage, our Civil War, and the whole Wild West to work with.

No one who crossed into this country through Ellis Island (some 12 million people) shared any of that heritage. It didn't even open until 1892.

**Lyle1** · 10th January 12, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by BCAC

This is fine for the Ex-pat himself, but in My opinion, NOT for his friggin' ggggggggrandson!

I great puzzle for me is why you, and at least some other Scots, seem to care so much about the issue. It seems that the very idea that Americans hold the belief that as individuals our cultural heritage extends back to the homelands of our ancestors is offensive to you.

I will say this as politely as I can. Quite frankly I do not understand why anyone would presume to tell other people what they should value and what should be of interest and importance to them, so long as those beliefs cause harm to others. Does my thinking of myself as have a Scottish heritage (only one part of my genealogical family stew) detract from your well being in anyway?